The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-) ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> To: voiceops at ics-il.net Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM Subject: 911 and Softphones Hey All, With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris
We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply for the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from home people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't. Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension, phone app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app? Yeah, that's inherently much more difficult to manage. I don't know. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> To: "Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-) ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> To: voiceops at ics-il.net Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM Subject: 911 and Softphones Hey All, With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I *thought* I had read something about mobile apps being given a pass on 911, but not completely sure. And then where do we cross the line? Mobile app, tablet running a WebRTC softphone...etc... On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply for the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from home people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't.
Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension, phone app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app? Yeah, that's inherently much more difficult to manage.
I don't know.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> *To: *"Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM *Subject: *[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones
The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-)
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> *To: *voiceops at ics-il.net *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM *Subject: *911 and Softphones
Hey All,
With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I'm still wondering why desk phones don't have a small built-in GPS chip yet? Soft phones on cell phones could have access to GPS. Web browsers wouldn't work so well. But having the phone out-of-band-signal the phone server with GPS info (maybe a SIP header or something) would allow the phone server to use that information for routing 911 calls. It could even pass the info through directly to more 'advanced' 911 centers. One possibility would be to go old-style and transmit the data in-band over the voice circuit similar to modems or DSL. We're only talking a few bytes for GPS coordinates, elevation, and accuracy information. Burst the data at the beginning of the call, or every 30 seconds, etc... My motorola HT-1250 from two decades ago would transmit something like an 8-character radio identifier when you keyed up. It only delayed the conversation by a third of a second. Maybe the phone server could even add in some additional information (i.e. "123 West Main St / 3rd Floor / Room 42"). -A On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
I *thought* I had read something about mobile apps being given a pass on 911, but not completely sure. And then where do we cross the line? Mobile app, tablet running a WebRTC softphone...etc...
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply for the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from home people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't.
Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension, phone app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app? Yeah, that's inherently much more difficult to manage.
I don't know.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> *To: *"Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM *Subject: *[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones
The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-)
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> *To: *voiceops at ics-il.net *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM *Subject: *911 and Softphones
Hey All,
With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
GPS is useless inside most buildings. That's why mobiles have A-GPS, which is assisted by wifi and bluetooth. Even in homes, GPS signals are mostly blocked. In a commercial building, almost guaranteed to be blocked. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 1:23 PM Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
I'm still wondering why desk phones don't have a small built-in GPS chip yet? Soft phones on cell phones could have access to GPS. Web browsers wouldn't work so well. But having the phone out-of-band-signal the phone server with GPS info (maybe a SIP header or something) would allow the phone server to use that information for routing 911 calls. It could even pass the info through directly to more 'advanced' 911 centers.
One possibility would be to go old-style and transmit the data in-band over the voice circuit similar to modems or DSL. We're only talking a few bytes for GPS coordinates, elevation, and accuracy information. Burst the data at the beginning of the call, or every 30 seconds, etc...
My motorola HT-1250 from two decades ago would transmit something like an 8-character radio identifier when you keyed up. It only delayed the conversation by a third of a second.
Maybe the phone server could even add in some additional information (i.e. "123 West Main St / 3rd Floor / Room 42").
-A
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
I *thought* I had read something about mobile apps being given a pass on 911, but not completely sure. And then where do we cross the line? Mobile app, tablet running a WebRTC softphone...etc...
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply for the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from home people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't.
Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension, phone app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app? Yeah, that's inherently much more difficult to manage.
I don't know.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> *To: *"Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM *Subject: *[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones
The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-)
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> *To: *voiceops at ics-il.net *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM *Subject: *911 and Softphones
Hey All,
With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
This may be a stupid question, but I know absolutely nothing about mobile: I'm deep inside an apartment building, and there are no windows on the lower level. How does my phone know where I am? I've heard much about deducing it through WiFi and/or Bluetooth, but how? -- Alex On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 01:27:05PM -0700, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
GPS is useless inside most buildings. That's why mobiles have A-GPS, which is assisted by wifi and bluetooth. Even in homes, GPS signals are mostly blocked. In a commercial building, almost guaranteed to be blocked.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 1:23 PM Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
I'm still wondering why desk phones don't have a small built-in GPS chip yet? Soft phones on cell phones could have access to GPS. Web browsers wouldn't work so well. But having the phone out-of-band-signal the phone server with GPS info (maybe a SIP header or something) would allow the phone server to use that information for routing 911 calls. It could even pass the info through directly to more 'advanced' 911 centers.
One possibility would be to go old-style and transmit the data in-band over the voice circuit similar to modems or DSL. We're only talking a few bytes for GPS coordinates, elevation, and accuracy information. Burst the data at the beginning of the call, or every 30 seconds, etc...
My motorola HT-1250 from two decades ago would transmit something like an 8-character radio identifier when you keyed up. It only delayed the conversation by a third of a second.
Maybe the phone server could even add in some additional information (i.e. "123 West Main St / 3rd Floor / Room 42").
-A
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
I *thought* I had read something about mobile apps being given a pass on 911, but not completely sure. And then where do we cross the line? Mobile app, tablet running a WebRTC softphone...etc...
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply for the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from home people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't.
Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension, phone app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app? Yeah, that's inherently much more difficult to manage.
I don't know.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> *To: *"Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM *Subject: *[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones
The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-)
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> *To: *voiceops at ics-il.net *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM *Subject: *911 and Softphones
Hey All,
With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Alex, I can't speak to what's deployed, but I know that the IIT has been working on location awareness for mobile users for a long while This is from Cluecon 2018: https://youtu.be/A8i2psbeYT4 There was a similar session at Cluecon 2019, but it was not recorded. Michael Graves mgraves at mstvp.com o: (713) 861-4005 c: (713) 201-1262 sip:mgraves at mjg.onsip.com -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 3:37 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones This may be a stupid question, but I know absolutely nothing about mobile: I'm deep inside an apartment building, and there are no windows on the lower level. How does my phone know where I am? I've heard much about deducing it through WiFi and/or Bluetooth, but how? -- Alex On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 01:27:05PM -0700, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
GPS is useless inside most buildings. That's why mobiles have A-GPS, which is assisted by wifi and bluetooth. Even in homes, GPS signals are mostly blocked. In a commercial building, almost guaranteed to be blocked.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 1:23 PM Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
I'm still wondering why desk phones don't have a small built-in GPS chip yet? Soft phones on cell phones could have access to GPS. Web browsers wouldn't work so well. But having the phone out-of-band-signal the phone server with GPS info (maybe a SIP header or something) would allow the phone server to use that information for routing 911 calls. It could even pass the info through directly to more 'advanced' 911 centers.
One possibility would be to go old-style and transmit the data in-band over the voice circuit similar to modems or DSL. We're only talking a few bytes for GPS coordinates, elevation, and accuracy information. Burst the data at the beginning of the call, or every 30 seconds, etc...
My motorola HT-1250 from two decades ago would transmit something like an 8-character radio identifier when you keyed up. It only delayed the conversation by a third of a second.
Maybe the phone server could even add in some additional information (i.e. "123 West Main St / 3rd Floor / Room 42").
-A
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
I *thought* I had read something about mobile apps being given a pass on 911, but not completely sure. And then where do we cross the line? Mobile app, tablet running a WebRTC softphone...etc...
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply for the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from home people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't.
Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension, phone app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app? Yeah, that's inherently much more difficult to manage.
I don't know.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> *To: *"Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM *Subject: *[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones
The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-)
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> *To: *voiceops at ics-il.net *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM *Subject: *911 and Softphones
Hey All,
With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Apple in particular has some advanced, enhanced, and proprietary methods to locate devices. They have become so hard to steal. I don't know their system at any deep level, but it uses technology that understands location and direction. It can also pass on location data between Apple devices, even if they don't belong to you. https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/apple/149336-how-apple-s-u1-chip-add... https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-google-and-everyone-else-gets-wi-fi-locati... We were able to find a lost Airpod because of this, last seen by a neighbor's network. Found in the park behind his house. Aside from that, there are databases full of info on where wifi APs are located, so their proximity can be used to enhance GPS. Have you ever noticed that devices sometimes "float" within a building? That's because it's really just approximating. In this image, all of my devices are within inches of each other, but can't get GPS, so they are guessing location. https://i.imgur.com/HFqMSnt.png On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 1:38 PM Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
This may be a stupid question, but I know absolutely nothing about mobile:
I'm deep inside an apartment building, and there are no windows on the lower level. How does my phone know where I am?
I've heard much about deducing it through WiFi and/or Bluetooth, but how?
-- Alex
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 01:27:05PM -0700, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
GPS is useless inside most buildings. That's why mobiles have A-GPS, which is assisted by wifi and bluetooth. Even in homes, GPS signals are mostly blocked. In a commercial building, almost guaranteed to be blocked.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 1:23 PM Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
I'm still wondering why desk phones don't have a small built-in GPS chip yet? Soft phones on cell phones could have access to GPS. Web browsers wouldn't work so well. But having the phone out-of-band-signal the phone server with GPS info (maybe a SIP header or something) would allow the phone server to use that information for routing 911 calls. It could even pass the info through directly to more 'advanced' 911 centers.
One possibility would be to go old-style and transmit the data in-band over the voice circuit similar to modems or DSL. We're only talking a few bytes for GPS coordinates, elevation, and accuracy information. Burst the data at the beginning of the call, or every 30 seconds, etc...
My motorola HT-1250 from two decades ago would transmit something like an 8-character radio identifier when you keyed up. It only delayed the conversation by a third of a second.
Maybe the phone server could even add in some additional information (i.e. "123 West Main St / 3rd Floor / Room 42").
-A
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
I *thought* I had read something about mobile apps being given a pass on 911, but not completely sure. And then where do we cross the line? Mobile app, tablet running a WebRTC softphone...etc...
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply for the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from home people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't.
Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension, phone app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app? Yeah, that's inherently much more difficult to manage.
I don't know.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> *To: *"Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM *Subject: *[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones
The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-)
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> *To: *voiceops at ics-il.net *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM *Subject: *911 and Softphones
Hey All,
With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 2020-05-14 14:23, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One possibility would be to go old-style and transmit the data in-band over the voice circuit similar to modems or DSL. We're only talking a few bytes for GPS coordinates, elevation, and accuracy information. Burst the data at the beginning of the call, or every 30 seconds, etc...
My motorola HT-1250 from two decades ago would transmit something like an 8-character radio identifier when you keyed up. It only delayed the conversation by a third of a second.
Maybe the phone server could even add in some additional information (i.e. "123 West Main St / 3rd Floor / Room 42").
W00T for the OG in-band location relay methods! Because the first question the PSAP operator asks is: *WHERE* is your emergency ? I was struggling with automating the answer to that question, and I considered Morse Code, but that requires the dispatcher to understand... and bursting a couple bytes of data would require the dispatcher's equipment to understand... I think the common denominator -- even in worst-case scenarios eg. GPS satellites offline, CAP system at PSAP is down, etc. -- is the phone audio path. No Phone == No 911. So, I started cobbling together some dial plan configuration for Asterisk, that uses Text-To-Speech to relay locations with in-band audio, announcing info eg. the GPS, Plus Codes, and more, at the start of the call (and then again when anybody presses *.) It also allows conferencing in security and front desk phones, which potentially gets even more useful in the worst-worst-case scenario eg. external phone lines to PSAP are all down or busy. It came from a business conferencing solution, thus the odd name, but please give it a whirl -- Always Be Conferencing on GitHub: https://github.com/chrsmj/always-be-conferencing Currently, it includes FreePBX integration examples, some IVRs for IT to program desk phones on a per-phone basis (and help them train users to do it themselves), lots of Caller ID manipulation options (subnet based for branch offices, rotate from temporary pool for lobby phones, reverse Caller ID to help walk through the settings.) There's also focus on storing the location information locally in encrypted formats on the PBX itself instead of assigning a DID for each home office user and the associated risks of publishing all of those previously private whereabouts (until it is absolutely needed eg. emergency.) Kind Regards, -- ? C. Maj, Technology Captain @ Penguin PBX Solutions ? USA Toll Free 1-833-PNGNPBX (1-833-764-6729) ? International & SMS Texting +1.720.32.42.72.9 ? Visit on the World Wide Web at PENGUINPBX.COM
There's already an RFC to do this inband w/ SIP. PIDF-LO https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5491 The trick w/ a softphone is detecting if the user is at some known location and using that address or a new unknown location and figuring out the address. Heath Eldeen On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:52 AM C.Maj <chris.voiceops at penguinpbx.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-14 14:23, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One possibility would be to go old-style and transmit the data in-band over the voice circuit similar to modems or DSL. We're only talking a few bytes for GPS coordinates, elevation, and accuracy information. Burst the data at the beginning of the call, or every 30 seconds, etc...
My motorola HT-1250 from two decades ago would transmit something like an 8-character radio identifier when you keyed up. It only delayed the conversation by a third of a second.
Maybe the phone server could even add in some additional information (i.e. "123 West Main St / 3rd Floor / Room 42").
W00T for the OG in-band location relay methods!
Because the first question the PSAP operator asks is:
*WHERE* is your emergency ?
I was struggling with automating the answer to that question, and I considered Morse Code, but that requires the dispatcher to understand... and bursting a couple bytes of data would require the dispatcher's equipment to understand...
I think the common denominator -- even in worst-case scenarios eg. GPS satellites offline, CAP system at PSAP is down, etc. -- is the phone audio path. No Phone == No 911.
So, I started cobbling together some dial plan configuration for Asterisk, that uses Text-To-Speech to relay locations with in-band audio, announcing info eg. the GPS, Plus Codes, and more, at the start of the call (and then again when anybody presses *.) It also allows conferencing in security and front desk phones, which potentially gets even more useful in the worst-worst-case scenario eg. external phone lines to PSAP are all down or busy.
It came from a business conferencing solution, thus the odd name, but please give it a whirl -- Always Be Conferencing on GitHub:
https://github.com/chrsmj/always-be-conferencing
Currently, it includes FreePBX integration examples, some IVRs for IT to program desk phones on a per-phone basis (and help them train users to do it themselves), lots of Caller ID manipulation options (subnet based for branch offices, rotate from temporary pool for lobby phones, reverse Caller ID to help walk through the settings.) There's also focus on storing the location information locally in encrypted formats on the PBX itself instead of assigning a DID for each home office user and the associated risks of publishing all of those previously private whereabouts (until it is absolutely needed eg. emergency.)
Kind Regards,
-- ? C. Maj, Technology Captain @ Penguin PBX Solutions ? USA Toll Free 1-833-PNGNPBX (1-833-764-6729) ? International & SMS Texting +1.720.32.42.72.9 ? Visit on the World Wide Web at PENGUINPBX.COM _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
West Emergency Services supports routing by GPS, provided via SIP header. They also support dynamic callback number assignment for internal routing numbers. I haven't used the GPS portion, but for the latter we would assign a unique account per user location and attach that to the user's primary extension via simultaneous ring. The user location accounts would have locations attached just like DIDs. Regards, Calvin Ellison Senior Voice Operations Engineer calvin.ellison at voxox.com On Thu, May 14, 2020, 12:53 Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
I *thought* I had read something about mobile apps being given a pass on 911, but not completely sure. And then where do we cross the line? Mobile app, tablet running a WebRTC softphone...etc...
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply for the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from home people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't.
Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension, phone app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app? Yeah, that's inherently much more difficult to manage.
I don't know.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> *To: *"Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM *Subject: *[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones
The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm on, I get list submissions. :-)
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com> *To: *voiceops at ics-il.net *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM *Subject: *911 and Softphones
Hey All,
With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are seeing a huge increase in soft phone usage. How is everyone handling location updates for 911 with soft phones? Our switch has the concept of sites and users fall within a site but can also travel across sites. An out pulsed number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the site. We are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can have a dedicated unique outbound number only for 911. Does your company consider a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911? From the reading I have done I see no delineation between the two. Thanks, Chris
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participants (8)
-
aaron＠heyaaron.com -
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
calvin.ellison＠voxox.com -
chris.voiceops＠PenguinPBX.com -
heath＠getweave.com -
mgraves＠mstvp.com -
voiceops＠ics-il.net