Helluva time with international
We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy. We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality. We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month. I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible. I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet. - Darren
You can connect with us over at Talkfree.com if you like. We are interconnected with over 100 global carriers. Colin On Jul 28, 2011, at 10:38 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org> wrote:
We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy.
We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality.
We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month.
I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible.
I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet.
- Darren
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
What we are learning is interconnected != properly handling every call. We need perfect connections every time, 95% isn't even good enough. I'm really serious, this client is super sensitive. Can you provider more detail about your interconnects? -- From: Colin <zavoid at gmail.com<mailto:zavoid at gmail.com>> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 04:32:43 -0700 To: Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> Cc: "VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>" <VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Helluva time with international You can connect with us over at Talkfree.com<http://Talkfree.com> if you like. We are interconnected with over 100 global carriers. Colin On Jul 28, 2011, at 10:38 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> wrote: We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy. We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality. We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month. I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible. I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet. - Darren _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Hi Darren, At Flowroute (http://www.flowroute.com) we use Global, Level3, AT&T and other in country carriers like telecom italia, NTT for routing to ensure the highest quality -- We also let the RTP stream go directly to the final carrier. I think they would be happy with our quality. Regards, Matthew Williams Flowroute LLC On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org> wrote:
We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy.
We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality.
We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month.
I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible.
I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet.
- Darren
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Thanks. We actually use Flowroute already. The customer is still complaining. :-( -- From: Matthew Williams <mgwilliams at gmail.com<mailto:mgwilliams at gmail.com>> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:31:44 -0700 To: Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> Cc: "VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>" <VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Helluva time with international Hi Darren, At Flowroute (http://www.flowroute.com) we use Global, Level3, AT&T and other in country carriers like telecom italia, NTT for routing to ensure the highest quality -- We also let the RTP stream go directly to the final carrier. I think they would be happy with our quality. Regards, Matthew Williams Flowroute LLC On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> wrote: We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy. We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality. We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month. I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible. I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet. - Darren _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Unless you've got a QoS-enabled path for the RTP to flow on -- where packet delivery rates are guaranteed somehow -- isn't Call Quality just a crapshoot? Maybe the RTP path ...will only traverse uncongested paths ...maybe the same paths will be in use today that were in use yesterday ...maybe nobody will add additional traffic to the path ...maybe nobody will add any rate limiting because of a billing dispute between two carriers I don't know ...maybe there won't be any failover events ...maybe nobody will economize and reduce link capacities mark at ecg.co | +1-229-316-0013 | http://ecg.co/lindsey On Jul 29, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Darren Schreiber wrote:
Thanks. We actually use Flowroute already. The customer is still complaining. :-(
--
From: Matthew Williams <mgwilliams at gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:31:44 -0700 To: Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org> Cc: "VoiceOps at voiceops.org" <VoiceOps at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Helluva time with international
Hi Darren,
At Flowroute (http://www.flowroute.com) we use Global, Level3, AT&T and other in country carriers like telecom italia, NTT for routing to ensure the highest quality -- We also let the RTP stream go directly to the final carrier. I think they would be happy with our quality.
Regards, Matthew Williams Flowroute LLC
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org> wrote:
We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy.
We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality.
We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month.
I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible.
I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet.
- Darren
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Yes, this is sort of the issue. We've effectively ruled out the customer at this point. We are using a dedicated T1 from Level3. It has no other traffic ? only voice. Call volume is about 6 simultaneous calls, max. We test bandwidth and latency (regularly) and it's always fine. I do think the issues are what you describe below re: paths, and I guess I'm looking for a more reliable solution where the carrier is dedicated to ensuring the calls complete on premium routes with high quality each and every time. There appears to be a lot of economizing going on and it's frustrating. These guys don't have massive volumes? but it's enough that they notice the issues. -- From: Mark R Lindsey <lindsey at e-c-group.com<mailto:lindsey at e-c-group.com>> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:24:15 -0700 To: Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> Cc: Matthew Williams <mgwilliams at gmail.com<mailto:mgwilliams at gmail.com>>, "VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>" <VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Helluva time with international Unless you've got a QoS-enabled path for the RTP to flow on -- where packet delivery rates are guaranteed somehow -- isn't Call Quality just a crapshoot? Maybe the RTP path ...will only traverse uncongested paths ...maybe the same paths will be in use today that were in use yesterday ...maybe nobody will add additional traffic to the path ...maybe nobody will add any rate limiting because of a billing dispute between two carriers I don't know ...maybe there won't be any failover events ...maybe nobody will economize and reduce link capacities mark at ecg.co<mailto:mark at ecg.co> | +1-229-316-0013 | http://ecg.co/lindsey On Jul 29, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Darren Schreiber wrote: Thanks. We actually use Flowroute already. The customer is still complaining. :-( -- From: Matthew Williams <mgwilliams at gmail.com<mailto:mgwilliams at gmail.com>> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:31:44 -0700 To: Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> Cc: "VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>" <VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Helluva time with international Hi Darren, At Flowroute (http://www.flowroute.com<http://www.flowroute.com/>) we use Global, Level3, AT&T and other in country carriers like telecom italia, NTT for routing to ensure the highest quality -- We also let the RTP stream go directly to the final carrier. I think they would be happy with our quality. Regards, Matthew Williams Flowroute LLC On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> wrote: We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy. We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality. We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month. I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible. I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet. - Darren _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I'm sorry to hear you're having difficulties with our service. We work very hard to provide premium routes to all our clients and take customer issues seriously. I would be more than happy to arrange for a support engineer to reach out to you. Please do get back with me off list with more details (you can email me at my work address -- matthew at flowroute.com). Looking forward to hearing from you! On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org> wrote:
Thanks. We actually use Flowroute already. The customer is still complaining. :-(
--
From: Matthew Williams <mgwilliams at gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:31:44 -0700 To: Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org> Cc: "VoiceOps at voiceops.org" <VoiceOps at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Helluva time with international
Hi Darren,
At Flowroute (http://www.flowroute.com) we use Global, Level3, AT&T and other in country carriers like telecom italia, NTT for routing to ensure the highest quality -- We also let the RTP stream go directly to the final carrier. I think they would be happy with our quality.
Regards, Matthew Williams Flowroute LLC
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org> wrote:
We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy.
We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality.
We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month.
I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible.
I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet.
- Darren
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Sorry, am not trying to bash the service. Flowroute has been good to us. That's not really the point I was getting at. The point is I think most businesses are trying to deal with multiple carriers and routes and provide economic rates. I think we care less about the rates at this point and more about the quality, and I'd like to know who the actual carrier is on the other side so I can research where they have fiber / interconnects and such. I'll ping you off list for more details. - Darren -- From: Matthew Williams <mgwilliams at gmail.com<mailto:mgwilliams at gmail.com>> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:50:39 -0700 To: Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> Cc: "VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>" <VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Helluva time with international I'm sorry to hear you're having difficulties with our service. We work very hard to provide premium routes to all our clients and take customer issues seriously. I would be more than happy to arrange for a support engineer to reach out to you. Please do get back with me off list with more details (you can email me at my work address -- matthew at flowroute.com<mailto:matthew at flowroute.com>). Looking forward to hearing from you! On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> wrote: Thanks. We actually use Flowroute already. The customer is still complaining. :-( -- From: Matthew Williams <mgwilliams at gmail.com<mailto:mgwilliams at gmail.com>> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:31:44 -0700 To: Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> Cc: "VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>" <VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Helluva time with international Hi Darren, At Flowroute (http://www.flowroute.com) we use Global, Level3, AT&T and other in country carriers like telecom italia, NTT for routing to ensure the highest quality -- We also let the RTP stream go directly to the final carrier. I think they would be happy with our quality. Regards, Matthew Williams Flowroute LLC On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org<mailto:d at d-man.org>> wrote: We have a client who does sales in international locations and is constantly calling random countries. They are very sensitive to call quality. Countries called are generally in Europe, specifically lots of calls to France, Germany, Italy. We have been using a carrier whom gets 60%-70% ASR on each route and gave us three routes. The problem is that when calls fail on one route, sometimes there's a long delay before we get a failure code back. If we hangup quickly and move on to the next carrier, often the phone becomes "busy" because the first attempt was actually completing, just slowly. Sometimes we also get improper early media. So waiting for a response is hit/miss on speed, and not waiting for a response is hit/miss on call completion/quality. We're only doing $500-1,000 in international right now per month. I'm looking for a reliable carrier to move this traffic to. I was looking at PacWest for this. We're too low on $s to go direct to Global Crossing. I'm hyper-sensitive to running through extra media servers for no reason ? I want the RTP stream to go direct to the final carrier if possible. I wonder if anyone can make a recommendation on whom I can use? Or how I might get access to iBasis / Global Crossing routes directly in terms of RTP? I don't meet their minimums yet. - Darren _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (4)
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d＠d-man.org -
lindsey＠e-c-group.com -
mgwilliams＠gmail.com -
zavoid＠gmail.com