Carriers Keeping Acquired Defunct Company Names
I'm curious why companies like T-Mobile and Inteliquent/Onvoy/Voyant continue to retain company names and corporate entities long after their brands have been retired, acquired, and generally shell entities holding phone numbers. Some examples: T-Mobile -> Omnipoint, Aerial Communications, Suncom, Powertel, Sprint, Eliska Wireless Ventures Subsidiary I Sprint -> O1 Communications, US Telepacific AT&T -> New Cingular Wireless, Southwestern Bell, Pacific Bell, Bell South, Southern Bell, Ameritech Verizon -> Cellco Partnership, Bell Atlantic Nynex Mobile Inteliquent -> Radiant IQ, Onvoy, Voyant, Broadvox, Layered, Neutral Tandem CenturyLink -> United Telephone, Qwest Spectrum -> Charter Fiberlink So many of these brands are dead and acquired, yet these companies live on and own phone numbers. Cingular died in 2006. Radiant IQ acquired in 2015. Bell Atlantic went away in 2000 with Verizon acquiring Bell Atlantic and GTE. Why? What benefit does this provide the owning/operating companies? Legal insulation? Beckman PS -- This all started when I saw Inteliquent request VoIP Numbering for Radiant IQ in June 2020, a company they acquired in 2015, and generally does not exist in any meaningful way to customers or consumers, residential or business. This industry in the US is weird. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com https://www.angryox.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd bet that taxes and business licences enter into it. For some of those companies there is a lot of paper that goes back a lot of years in various federal, state, and local file cabinets. It's sometimes easier to simply use the old names that already have a legal existence in an area than try to change the names on all of that paperwork and maps.... That would be my guess. That and maybe intellectual property, keeping trademarks and names alive so that someone else can't pop up using it. On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 3:32 PM Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> wrote:
I'm curious why companies like T-Mobile and Inteliquent/Onvoy/Voyant continue to retain company names and corporate entities long after their brands have been retired, acquired, and generally shell entities holding phone numbers.
Some examples:
T-Mobile -> Omnipoint, Aerial Communications, Suncom, Powertel, Sprint, Eliska Wireless Ventures Subsidiary I Sprint -> O1 Communications, US Telepacific AT&T -> New Cingular Wireless, Southwestern Bell, Pacific Bell, Bell South, Southern Bell, Ameritech Verizon -> Cellco Partnership, Bell Atlantic Nynex Mobile Inteliquent -> Radiant IQ, Onvoy, Voyant, Broadvox, Layered, Neutral Tandem CenturyLink -> United Telephone, Qwest Spectrum -> Charter Fiberlink
So many of these brands are dead and acquired, yet these companies live on and own phone numbers. Cingular died in 2006. Radiant IQ acquired in 2015. Bell Atlantic went away in 2000 with Verizon acquiring Bell Atlantic and GTE.
Why? What benefit does this provide the owning/operating companies? Legal insulation?
Beckman
PS -- This all started when I saw Inteliquent request VoIP Numbering for Radiant IQ in June 2020, a company they acquired in 2015, and generally does not exist in any meaningful way to customers or consumers, residential or business. This industry in the US is weird. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com https://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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Yeah, that?s right. The amount of stuff tied to the legacy companies? identifiers, OCNs, namesakes and so forth is stupefying. It is completely impractical to change at all. ? Sent from mobile, with due apologies for brevity and errors.
On Oct 23, 2021, at 6:52 PM, Jeff Shultz <jeffshultz at sctcweb.com> wrote:
? I'd bet that taxes and business licences enter into it. For some of those companies there is a lot of paper that goes back a lot of years in various federal, state, and local file cabinets. It's sometimes easier to simply use the old names that already have a legal existence in an area than try to change the names on all of that paperwork and maps....
That would be my guess. That and maybe intellectual property, keeping trademarks and names alive so that someone else can't pop up using it.
On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 3:32 PM Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> wrote: I'm curious why companies like T-Mobile and Inteliquent/Onvoy/Voyant continue to retain company names and corporate entities long after their brands have been retired, acquired, and generally shell entities holding phone numbers.
Some examples:
T-Mobile -> Omnipoint, Aerial Communications, Suncom, Powertel, Sprint, Eliska Wireless Ventures Subsidiary I Sprint -> O1 Communications, US Telepacific AT&T -> New Cingular Wireless, Southwestern Bell, Pacific Bell, Bell South, Southern Bell, Ameritech Verizon -> Cellco Partnership, Bell Atlantic Nynex Mobile Inteliquent -> Radiant IQ, Onvoy, Voyant, Broadvox, Layered, Neutral Tandem CenturyLink -> United Telephone, Qwest Spectrum -> Charter Fiberlink
So many of these brands are dead and acquired, yet these companies live on and own phone numbers. Cingular died in 2006. Radiant IQ acquired in 2015. Bell Atlantic went away in 2000 with Verizon acquiring Bell Atlantic and GTE.
Why? What benefit does this provide the owning/operating companies? Legal insulation?
Beckman
PS -- This all started when I saw Inteliquent request VoIP Numbering for Radiant IQ in June 2020, a company they acquired in 2015, and generally does not exist in any meaningful way to customers or consumers, residential or business. This industry in the US is weird. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com https://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Jeff Shultz
Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!!
*** This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. *** _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Just a point of note, Sprint does not, and never did, own O1 Communications.? The O1 and TPx (telepacific) split happened almost a decade before Siris acquired TPx.? O1 is its own privately held entity. On 10/23/2021 3:21 PM, Peter Beckman wrote:
Sprint????? -> O1 Communications, US Telepacific
To add to Brooks? clarification, back in 2010-2011, O1 Communications sold the entirety of their Small to Medium Enterprise portion (including customers, leased lines, much of the networking infrastructure, the data center at 1515K Street, and other various assets) to TelePacific. O1 retained the wholesale origination and termination side of the business as a privately held entity. Cheers, Nick
On Oct 23, 2021, at 10:16 PM, Brooks Bridges <brooks at firestormnetworks.net> wrote:
?Just a point of note, Sprint does not, and never did, own O1 Communications. The O1 and TPx (telepacific) split happened almost a decade before Siris acquired TPx. O1 is its own privately held entity.
On 10/23/2021 3:21 PM, Peter Beckman wrote: Sprint -> O1 Communications, US Telepacific
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Qwest was on the ball back in the day and got one of the few single letter domain names. Centurylink now controls q.com and qwest was putting customer email addresses on that domain. I don't know if Centurylink is still using that domain for customers anymore. Jay -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Peter Beckman Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 5:22 PM To: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: [VoiceOps] Carriers Keeping Acquired Defunct Company Names I'm curious why companies like T-Mobile and Inteliquent/Onvoy/Voyant continue to retain company names and corporate entities long after their brands have been retired, acquired, and generally shell entities holding phone numbers. Some examples: T-Mobile -> Omnipoint, Aerial Communications, Suncom, Powertel, Sprint, Eliska Wireless Ventures Subsidiary I Sprint -> O1 Communications, US Telepacific AT&T -> New Cingular Wireless, Southwestern Bell, Pacific Bell, Bell South, Southern Bell, Ameritech Verizon -> Cellco Partnership, Bell Atlantic Nynex Mobile Inteliquent -> Radiant IQ, Onvoy, Voyant, Broadvox, Layered, Neutral Tandem CenturyLink -> United Telephone, Qwest Spectrum -> Charter Fiberlink So many of these brands are dead and acquired, yet these companies live on and own phone numbers. Cingular died in 2006. Radiant IQ acquired in 2015. Bell Atlantic went away in 2000 with Verizon acquiring Bell Atlantic and GTE. Why? What benefit does this provide the owning/operating companies? Legal insulation? Beckman PS -- This all started when I saw Inteliquent request VoIP Numbering for Radiant IQ in June 2020, a company they acquired in 2015, and generally does not exist in any meaningful way to customers or consumers, residential or business. This industry in the US is weird. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com https://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
My understanding is that this is all about the administrative friction of transfers and re-registrations. Once you?re registered with the FCC, state Public Utilities Commissions, local authorities for access to right of way and pole access, name changes and transfers can be complex. Then there are telecom-specific registries like NANP and NPAC, where each reassignment of a NPANXX block might require filing several forms. It?s also possible for those transfers to be rejected, hypothetically even if the FTC, DOJ or other related agencies have approved the transfer. However certain transactions, like a simple change of ownership, or an addition of a DBA identity, can be successful ways to get through the red tape. Therefore you?ll still see names going back to the original creation of the databases at the breakup of ?Ma Bell;? e.g., blocks of numbers assigned to ?Southern Bell?, later renamed BellSouth, later acquired by AT&T. But in some databases it?s still retained as the old name from the early 1989s. On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 18:32 Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> wrote:
I'm curious why companies like T-Mobile and Inteliquent/Onvoy/Voyant continue to retain company names and corporate entities long after their brands have been retired, acquired, and generally shell entities holding phone numbers.
Some examples:
T-Mobile -> Omnipoint, Aerial Communications, Suncom, Powertel, Sprint, Eliska Wireless Ventures Subsidiary I Sprint -> O1 Communications, US Telepacific AT&T -> New Cingular Wireless, Southwestern Bell, Pacific Bell, Bell South, Southern Bell, Ameritech Verizon -> Cellco Partnership, Bell Atlantic Nynex Mobile Inteliquent -> Radiant IQ, Onvoy, Voyant, Broadvox, Layered, Neutral Tandem CenturyLink -> United Telephone, Qwest Spectrum -> Charter Fiberlink
So many of these brands are dead and acquired, yet these companies live on and own phone numbers. Cingular died in 2006. Radiant IQ acquired in 2015. Bell Atlantic went away in 2000 with Verizon acquiring Bell Atlantic and GTE.
Why? What benefit does this provide the owning/operating companies? Legal insulation?
Beckman
PS -- This all started when I saw Inteliquent request VoIP Numbering for Radiant IQ in June 2020, a company they acquired in 2015, and generally does not exist in any meaningful way to customers or consumers, residential or business. This industry in the US is weird. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com https://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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I see situations up here in Minnesota where it appears that CenturyLink is essentially CLECing themselves.? An simple example would be Warroad, MN. https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec... CENTURYTEL OF MINNESOTA, INC. (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 1445 is the original ILEC in Warroad with 218-386. CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LL (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 508J has CLECed Warroad with 218-986-6. The same sort of thing exists for Roseau <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...>, Baudette <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...>, and Humbolt <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...>. Over in Thief River Falls, MN, the original ILEC is 218-681, shown as QWEST CORPORATION OCN 9631. https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec... CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LL (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 508J is also present in this exchange with 218-684-7. As a bonus, LEVEL 3 COMMUNICATIONS, LLC - (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 5256 is here too with 218-416-8. We have a nickname for this company where we try to slur all the names together.? It sounds something like: Qwest-tree-Tel-Link But trying to add Level 3 and Lumen to the mix is somewhat challenging.? Maybe make the "tree" sound into a "three"?? I'm open to suggestions on this clearly very important topic. Qwest-3-Tel-Link ???
Why would a company want to be both an ILEC and CLEC in the same area? From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Mike Johnston Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 3:16 PM To: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Carriers Keeping Acquired Defunct Company Names I see situations up here in Minnesota where it appears that CenturyLink is essentially CLECing themselves. An simple example would be Warroad, MN. https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec... CENTURYTEL OF MINNESOTA, INC. (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 1445 is the original ILEC in Warroad with 218-386. CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LL (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 508J has CLECed Warroad with 218-986-6. The same sort of thing exists for Roseau<https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...>, Baudette<https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...>, and Humbolt<https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...>. Over in Thief River Falls, MN, the original ILEC is 218-681, shown as QWEST CORPORATION OCN 9631. https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec... CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LL (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 508J is also present in this exchange with 218-684-7. As a bonus, LEVEL 3 COMMUNICATIONS, LLC - (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 5256 is here too with 218-416-8. We have a nickname for this company where we try to slur all the names together. It sounds something like: Qwest-tree-Tel-Link But trying to add Level 3 and Lumen to the mix is somewhat challenging. Maybe make the "tree" sound into a "three"? I'm open to suggestions on this clearly very important topic. Qwest-3-Tel-Link ???
Can they do that? How do you keep the sales entities separate? Aryn Nakaoka anakaoka at trinet-hi.com Direct: 808.356.2901 518 Holokahana Lane Honolulu, Hi 96817 AlohaTone Mobile: https://youtu.be/PdUyuf0hTYY A Better Solution https://www.trinet-hi.com/abettersolution.pdf <https://www.trinet-hi.com/abettersolution.pdf> Aloha Tone PBX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96YWPY9wCeU CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. Any disclosure, distribution or copying of this email or any attachments by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to the message and deleting this email and any attachments from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 3:19 PM Ryan Finnesey <ryan.finnesey at conovence.com> wrote:
Why would a company want to be both an ILEC and CLEC in the same area?
*From:* VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> *On Behalf Of *Mike Johnston *Sent:* Sunday, October 24, 2021 3:16 PM *To:* VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Subject:* Re: [VoiceOps] Carriers Keeping Acquired Defunct Company Names
I see situations up here in Minnesota where it appears that CenturyLink is essentially CLECing themselves. An simple example would be Warroad, MN.
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec... CENTURYTEL OF MINNESOTA, INC. (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 1445 is the original ILEC in Warroad with 218-386. CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LL (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 508J has CLECed Warroad with 218-986-6.
The same sort of thing exists for Roseau <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...>, Baudette <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...>, and Humbolt <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...> .
Over in Thief River Falls, MN, the original ILEC is 218-681, shown as QWEST CORPORATION OCN 9631.
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec... CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LL (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 508J is also present in this exchange with 218-684-7. As a bonus, LEVEL 3 COMMUNICATIONS, LLC - (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 5256 is here too with 218-416-8.
We have a nickname for this company where we try to slur all the names together. It sounds something like: Qwest-tree-Tel-Link But trying to add Level 3 and Lumen to the mix is somewhat challenging. Maybe make the "tree" sound into a "three"? I'm open to suggestions on this clearly very important topic. Qwest-3-Tel-Link ??? _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
To avoid regulation?? From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Ryan Finnesey Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 8:08 PM To: Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com>; VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Carriers Keeping Acquired Defunct Company Names Why would a company want to be both an ILEC and CLEC in the same area? From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> > On Behalf Of Mike Johnston Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 3:16 PM To: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> > Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Carriers Keeping Acquired Defunct Company Names I see situations up here in Minnesota where it appears that CenturyLink is essentially CLECing themselves. An simple example would be Warroad, MN. https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec... <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...> &state=MN CENTURYTEL OF MINNESOTA, INC. (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 1445 is the original ILEC in Warroad with 218-386. CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LL (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 508J has CLECed Warroad with 218-986-6. The same sort of thing exists for Roseau <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...> , Baudette <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...> , and Humbolt <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...> . Over in Thief River Falls, MN, the original ILEC is 218-681, shown as QWEST CORPORATION OCN 9631. https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec... <https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-by-ratecenter-state?ratec...> &state=MN CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LL (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 508J is also present in this exchange with 218-684-7. As a bonus, LEVEL 3 COMMUNICATIONS, LLC - (CenturyLink, Inc) OCN 5256 is here too with 218-416-8. We have a nickname for this company where we try to slur all the names together. It sounds something like: Qwest-tree-Tel-Link But trying to add Level 3 and Lumen to the mix is somewhat challenging. Maybe make the "tree" sound into a "three"? I'm open to suggestions on this clearly very important topic. Qwest-3-Tel-Link ???
On 10/24/21 18:08, Ryan Finnesey wrote:
Why would a company want to be both an ILEC and CLEC in the same area?
Probably some regulatory benefits, as well as: "You guys at Brand X suck, I'm switching to Brand Y." Under the hood, Brand Y is essentially a CNAME for Brand X. -- Jay Hennigan - jay at west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
Not directly related, but don?t forget metro ILECs who have or buy RLECs as a funnel to capture that sweet, sweet USF revenue. You know, that stuff that?s ostensibly intended to facilitate rural broadbandisation and whatnot...
On Oct 25, 2021, at 12:28 PM, Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net> wrote:
On 10/24/21 18:08, Ryan Finnesey wrote:
Why would a company want to be both an ILEC and CLEC in the same area?
Probably some regulatory benefits, as well as:
"You guys at Brand X suck, I'm switching to Brand Y."
Under the hood, Brand Y is essentially a CNAME for Brand X.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay at west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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participants (12)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
anakaoka＠trinet-hi.com -
beckman＠angryox.com -
brooks＠firestormnetworks.net -
dfrigen＠wabash.net -
jay.taylor＠hitechmn.com -
jay＠west.net -
jeffshultz＠sctcweb.com -
lindsey＠e-c-group.com -
mjohnston＠wiktel.com -
nicksten＠gmail.com -
ryan.finnesey＠conovence.com