oops, didn't finish my though. i'm assuming there is no way to differentiate between a US TFN and CANADIAN TFN right? thanks srhi On Oct 19, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
there's no way to differ
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote: Thanks. I'm actually working with Primus Canada and I have inbound trunks with them now.
Sent from my mobile device.
On Oct 19, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Jared Geiger <jared at compuwizz.net> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all, I have an issue that seems to have arisen (perhaps recently), that i'm unsure of how to resolve. We have a few customers in the Toronto, ON area where the outgoing CLID set as a Toronto TN (sourced from bandwidth.com i believe). when these customers dial canadian Toll Free numbers, the TFN provider rejects the call. we send these calls our our level3 EVT trunk. Level 3 states that they only support canadian TN's calling Canadian TFN's as "best effort".
we have the same issue sending the calls out Bandwidth, where they might likely send the call out Level3 as well. we have the same issue sending the calls out windstream.
has anyone seen this issue as well? i'm going to try a few more carriers.
thanks,
shri
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Hi Shri,
Yes we see this a lot. The frustrating part is when the carrier doesn't give a 503 but instead plays a recording. We usually have good luck by first sending the call to our Peerless Networks trunks and then if they can't terminate it, they do 503 it and then we try 360 Networks (Onvoy Voip360). This has given us the best results.
Carriers that we've tested that tend to play a message are O1 Communications and Hypercube,
I've been told in Canada many carriers have to pay to terminate the Toll Free traffic reliably. I would suggest talking to Primus Canada to see if they can help you out.
~Jared _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
oops, didn't finish my though.
i'm assuming there is no way to differentiate between a US TFN and CANADIAN TFN right?
thanks
srhi
There isn't a way to tell. Some TFN that a Canadian dials won't terminate but then the same number dialed will terminate with a US Caller ID.
Our company is a RespOrg which controls toll-free numbers. As such, I can tell you what is likely causing this. When a toll-free customer sets up their toll-free service, they can choose to handle calls differently from any US state or NPA (area code). Options include routing to a specific destination phone number from any NPA, or deliberately not routing calls from a certain NPA. Since some long-distance carriers charge more for Canadian toll-free service, some customers may be setup not to route calls from Canadian phone numbers. We see this a lot recently with people using this mechanism to reject calls from invalid calling numbers, and also from toll-free numbers both of which are technically inappropriate to use as your ANI. One way that you could get around this on an Asterisk-type switch would be to setup your dialplan to first try the call with the normal ANI, and then if it fails try the call again using a US ANI *that belongs to you*. Getting a US-based phone number for this purpose should be pretty easy to do (we can provide them, for instance), and it would probably clear up your issue if this is the cause. Regards, Mike Mike Ray, MBA, CNE, CTE Astro Companies, LLC 11523 Palm Brush Trail #401 Lakewood Ranch, FL 34202 DIRECT: 941 600-0207 http://www.astrocompanies.com -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jared Geiger Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 11:44 AM To: Shripal Daphtary Cc: VoiceOps at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Canadian TFN Calls On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
oops, didn't finish my though.
i'm assuming there is no way to differentiate between a US TFN and CANADIAN TFN right?
thanks
srhi
There isn't a way to tell. Some TFN that a Canadian dials won't terminate but then the same number dialed will terminate with a US Caller ID. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
A TFN has no geographical belonging. When issued by a RespOrg - it's just "a" 800/888/877/866/855 number. For TFNs there is such a thing as _area_of_service which can be a set on request of a TFN owner (user) to include a list of countries (f.e. - Caribbean region), a country - for example - Canada or US, a list of LATAs or a single one, list of NPAs and or NPA NXXs as well as any combination of the above. If a TFN owner wants to limit its area of service to Great Toronto ONLY - they can do it (by asking their RespOrg). Because the TFN owner pays for calls coming to his/her number depending on a call's origin. Just to give an example - an average rate to get a TF call from Alaska to New York is ABOVE $0.20. Therefore a local liqueur store or even Mercedes Benz dealership don't want for calls from Alaska to hit their numbers even by mistake. Regarding "playing" a message - this is a correct behavior because _what_ should be done in case of call being out of area of service is also configured by a request from TFN owner by its RespOrg. A CLEC which received a call to a TFN does SS7/TCAP request to its TF lookup provider in order to find out to where the call should be sent (which IXC - long distance carrier) to. If no carrier for originating area of service returned - then a type of message preconfigured on TFN's record must be played back to a caller. -- Regards, G.B. On Oct 19, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Jared Geiger wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
oops, didn't finish my though.
i'm assuming there is no way to differentiate between a US TFN and CANADIAN TFN right?
thanks
srhi
There isn't a way to tell. Some TFN that a Canadian dials won't terminate but then the same number dialed will terminate with a US Caller ID. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
A specific example I have is calling the Royal Bank of Canada works from a US Number on our US based providers however sending a Canadian Caller ID makes the call fail. 1-800-769-2511 is the number. RBC is not blocking Toronto or Vancouver based telephone numbers from calling them but when I set the Caller ID to be from those areas, it fails. On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:03 PM, GB <gb20090101 at gmail.com> wrote:
A TFN has no geographical belonging. When issued by a RespOrg - it's just "a" 800/888/877/866/855 number.
For TFNs there is such a thing as _area_of_service which can be a set on request of a TFN owner (user) to include a list of countries (f.e. - Caribbean region), a country - for example - Canada or US, a list of LATAs or a single one, list of NPAs and or NPA NXXs as well as any combination of the above.
If a TFN owner wants to limit its area of service to Great Toronto ONLY - they can do it (by asking their RespOrg). Because the TFN owner pays for calls coming to his/her number depending on a call's origin.
Just to give an example - an average rate to get a TF call from Alaska to New York is ABOVE $0.20. Therefore a local liqueur store or even Mercedes Benz dealership don't want for calls from Alaska to hit their numbers even by mistake.
Regarding "playing" a message - this is a correct behavior because _what_ should be done in case of call being out of area of service is also configured by a request from TFN owner by its RespOrg. A CLEC which received a call to a TFN does SS7/TCAP request to its TF lookup provider in order to find out to where the call should be sent (which IXC - long distance carrier) to. If no carrier for originating area of service returned - then a type of message preconfigured on TFN's record must be played back to a caller. -- Regards, G.B.
On Oct 19, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Jared Geiger wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
oops, didn't finish my though.
i'm assuming there is no way to differentiate between a US TFN and CANADIAN TFN right?
thanks
srhi
There isn't a way to tell. Some TFN that a Canadian dials won't terminate but then the same number dialed will terminate with a US Caller ID. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
It's blocked by IXC (long distance carrier) who actually delivers the call to that RBC's number who _knows_ (a "jurisdiction" parameter in TF's lookup TCAP's return) that the calls were NOT originated from Toronto, because they arrived from an US operator. Moreover - it's already known case specifically about RBC (as well as about some other high profile TFN owners) that they _reject_ to pay for such US originated, fake "Toronto" calls. -- Regards, G.B. On Oct 19, 2012, at 12:15 PM, Jared Geiger wrote: A specific example I have is calling the Royal Bank of Canada works from a US Number on our US based providers however sending a Canadian Caller ID makes the call fail. 1-800-769-2511 is the number. RBC is not blocking Toronto or Vancouver based telephone numbers from calling them but when I set the Caller ID to be from those areas, it fails. On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:03 PM, GB <gb20090101 at gmail.com> wrote:
A TFN has no geographical belonging. When issued by a RespOrg - it's just "a" 800/888/877/866/855 number.
For TFNs there is such a thing as _area_of_service which can be a set on request of a TFN owner (user) to include a list of countries (f.e. - Caribbean region), a country - for example - Canada or US, a list of LATAs or a single one, list of NPAs and or NPA NXXs as well as any combination of the above.
If a TFN owner wants to limit its area of service to Great Toronto ONLY - they can do it (by asking their RespOrg). Because the TFN owner pays for calls coming to his/her number depending on a call's origin.
Just to give an example - an average rate to get a TF call from Alaska to New York is ABOVE $0.20. Therefore a local liqueur store or even Mercedes Benz dealership don't want for calls from Alaska to hit their numbers even by mistake.
Regarding "playing" a message - this is a correct behavior because _what_ should be done in case of call being out of area of service is also configured by a request from TFN owner by its RespOrg. A CLEC which received a call to a TFN does SS7/TCAP request to its TF lookup provider in order to find out to where the call should be sent (which IXC - long distance carrier) to. If no carrier for originating area of service returned - then a type of message preconfigured on TFN's record must be played back to a caller. -- Regards, G.B.
On Oct 19, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Jared Geiger wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
oops, didn't finish my though.
i'm assuming there is no way to differentiate between a US TFN and CANADIAN TFN right?
thanks
srhi
There isn't a way to tell. Some TFN that a Canadian dials won't terminate but then the same number dialed will terminate with a US Caller ID. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Yep, you'll find that RBC *is* blocking calls from those areas if changing the ANI to a US number fixes it. So this isn't an issue of where you send the call physically, it's an issue of Area of Service blocking for that TFN. So if you get a US-based ANI to use in cases like these, just stuff that if a normal toll-free calls fails and try it again. Regards, Mike Mike Ray, MBA, CNE, CTE Astro Companies, LLC 11523 Palm Brush Trail #401 Lakewood Ranch, FL 34202 DIRECT: 941 600-0207 http://www.astrocompanies.com -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jared Geiger Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 12:16 PM To: VoiceOps at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Canadian TFN Calls A specific example I have is calling the Royal Bank of Canada works from a US Number on our US based providers however sending a Canadian Caller ID makes the call fail. 1-800-769-2511 is the number. RBC is not blocking Toronto or Vancouver based telephone numbers from calling them but when I set the Caller ID to be from those areas, it fails. On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:03 PM, GB <gb20090101 at gmail.com> wrote:
A TFN has no geographical belonging. When issued by a RespOrg - it's just "a" 800/888/877/866/855 number.
For TFNs there is such a thing as _area_of_service which can be a set on request of a TFN owner (user) to include a list of countries (f.e. - Caribbean region), a country - for example - Canada or US, a list of LATAs or a single one, list of NPAs and or NPA NXXs as well as any combination of the above.
If a TFN owner wants to limit its area of service to Great Toronto ONLY - they can do it (by asking their RespOrg). Because the TFN owner pays for calls coming to his/her number depending on a call's origin.
Just to give an example - an average rate to get a TF call from Alaska to New York is ABOVE $0.20. Therefore a local liqueur store or even Mercedes Benz dealership don't want for calls from Alaska to hit their numbers even by mistake.
Regarding "playing" a message - this is a correct behavior because _what_ should be done in case of call being out of area of service is also configured by a request from TFN owner by its RespOrg. A CLEC which received a call to a TFN does SS7/TCAP request to its TF lookup provider in order to find out to where the call should be sent (which IXC - long distance carrier) to. If no carrier for originating area of service returned - then a type of message preconfigured on TFN's record must be played back to a caller. -- Regards, G.B.
On Oct 19, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Jared Geiger wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
oops, didn't finish my though.
i'm assuming there is no way to differentiate between a US TFN and CANADIAN TFN right?
thanks
srhi
There isn't a way to tell. Some TFN that a Canadian dials won't terminate but then the same number dialed will terminate with a US Caller ID. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
i guess, the question is, if i have a Toronto TN as the CLID, and the TFN is listed in Toronto, then why wouldn't it complete, Doug mentioned it was IP based blocking. but then why when we change the CLID to a US based TN, it works no problem? thanks shri On Oct 19, 2012, at 12:03 PM, GB <gb20090101 at gmail.com> wrote:
A TFN has no geographical belonging. When issued by a RespOrg - it's just "a" 800/888/877/866/855 number.
For TFNs there is such a thing as _area_of_service which can be a set on request of a TFN owner (user) to include a list of countries (f.e. - Caribbean region), a country - for example - Canada or US, a list of LATAs or a single one, list of NPAs and or NPA NXXs as well as any combination of the above.
If a TFN owner wants to limit its area of service to Great Toronto ONLY - they can do it (by asking their RespOrg). Because the TFN owner pays for calls coming to his/her number depending on a call's origin.
Just to give an example - an average rate to get a TF call from Alaska to New York is ABOVE $0.20. Therefore a local liqueur store or even Mercedes Benz dealership don't want for calls from Alaska to hit their numbers even by mistake.
Regarding "playing" a message - this is a correct behavior because _what_ should be done in case of call being out of area of service is also configured by a request from TFN owner by its RespOrg. A CLEC which received a call to a TFN does SS7/TCAP request to its TF lookup provider in order to find out to where the call should be sent (which IXC - long distance carrier) to. If no carrier for originating area of service returned - then a type of message preconfigured on TFN's record must be played back to a caller. -- Regards, G.B.
On Oct 19, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Jared Geiger wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Shripal Daphtary <shripald at gmail.com> wrote:
oops, didn't finish my though.
i'm assuming there is no way to differentiate between a US TFN and CANADIAN TFN right?
thanks
srhi
There isn't a way to tell. Some TFN that a Canadian dials won't terminate but then the same number dialed will terminate with a US Caller ID. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (4)
-
gb20090101＠gmail.com -
jared＠compuwizz.net -
mike＠astrocompanies.com -
shripald＠gmail.com