ATAs compatible with fire alarm panels
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there? Camille Issa | Vice President, Sales Alianza ? The Cloud Communications Platform Company Call Or Text<sms:+19192294040> 919-229-4040 | camille at alianza.com<mailto:camille at alianza.com> Alianza<http://www.alianza.com/> | Blog<http://www.alianza.com/call-to-the-cloud> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/alianza> | Twitter<http://www.twitter.com/alianza_inc>
Check your local fire code first. Last I checked various cities around San Francisco they require *two* analog lines (specifically non voip) or cellular/radio connected fire panels. Up to you, of course, but I would not want to be held liable for something like that. Same concept with elevator phones. Burglar alarms are a lot less restrictive for whatever reason. As far as ATA's go, I like Yeastar. They are about the size of a deck of cards and have all the bells and whistles you should need to connect to your PBX or hosted provider, etc. Best, *Brandon Svec* *15106862204 <15106862204> voice|sms**teamonesolutions.com <https://teamonesolutions.com/>* On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 1:35 PM Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
Camille Issa | Vice President, Sales * Alianza ? The Cloud Communications Platform Company*
Call Or *Text* 919-229-4040 | camille at alianza.com Alianza <http://www.alianza.com/> | Blog <http://www.alianza.com/call-to-the-cloud> | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/alianza> | Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/alianza_inc>
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On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 1:52 PM Brandon Svec <bsvec at teamonesolutions.com> wrote:
Check your local fire code first. Last I checked various cities around San Francisco they require *two* analog lines (specifically non voip) or cellular/radio connected fire panels.
I'm pretty sure those requirements are the only thing keeping Last Century Link in business. I had to call to get pricing for an analog line for an alarm panel a few months ago. After lots of questions about our existing corporate phone system and offers to get us switched entirely over to them (to ease our "management burden"), the sales droid bashed a few rocks together and told me it would be "approximately" $75/mo. When I responded in a shocked manner, he told me the setup fees were $150 and I could spread it over 6 months if I wanted to. Sheesh. It was cheaper to put a radio and a SIP ATA. -A
I've had success with the Grandstream HT802 On Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 3:36 PM Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
Camille Issa | Vice President, Sales * Alianza ? The Cloud Communications Platform Company*
Call Or *Text* 919-229-4040 | camille at alianza.com Alianza <http://www.alianza.com/> | Blog <http://www.alianza.com/call-to-the-cloud> | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/alianza> | Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/alianza_inc>
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I've used these in a few situations: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YV42ED2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_tit... They are PoE, so you can power them from your infrastructure. We have a few UPS units in offices that keep switches and the router up for voice traffic, and this device gets powered right along with it. The down-side is that they might not be updating the firmware anymore, and the devices are kinda kludgy to configure. -A On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 1:36 PM Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
Camille Issa | Vice President, Sales * Alianza ? The Cloud Communications Platform Company*
Call Or *Text* 919-229-4040 | camille at alianza.com Alianza <http://www.alianza.com/> | Blog <http://www.alianza.com/call-to-the-cloud> | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/alianza> | Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/alianza_inc>
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What signalling protocol are they using? We have a few Ademco Contact-ID panels out there. I've had good luck using Grandstreams with inband dtmf. Thanks... -Dennis On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 1:36 PM Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
Camille Issa | Vice President, Sales * Alianza ? The Cloud Communications Platform Company*
Call Or *Text* 919-229-4040 | camille at alianza.com Alianza <http://www.alianza.com/> | Blog <http://www.alianza.com/call-to-the-cloud> | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/alianza> | Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/alianza_inc>
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VoIP protocol is SIP. Camille Issa 919-623-2137 ________________________________ From: Dennis <dennislv at gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:00:19 PM To: Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] ATAs compatible with fire alarm panels What signalling protocol are they using? We have a few Ademco Contact-ID panels out there. I've had good luck using Grandstreams with inband dtmf. Thanks... -Dennis On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 1:36 PM Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com<mailto:camille at alianza.com>> wrote: Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there? Camille Issa | Vice President, Sales Alianza ? The Cloud Communications Platform Company Call Or Text 919-229-4040 | camille at alianza.com<mailto:camille at alianza.com> Alianza<http://www.alianza.com/> | Blog<http://www.alianza.com/call-to-the-cloud> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/alianza> | Twitter<http://www.twitter.com/alianza_inc> _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
They're referring to the signaling type of the fire alarm dialer to the monitoring service / central station. There are different types including different kinds of pulsing, and then the Ademco contact ID which is mainly used in addressable systems. We have had luck with the 4+2 and other pulse dialings but mixed results with contact ID since it is dumped onto the line so quickly (I have a recording of it somewhere - it's very quick and sometimes is too quick where it is not received reliably - inband DTMF settings or not). It seems that systems with Ademco contact ID also like to call out a lot more than pulse systems likely because they're busier systems and probably more to report on. We usually put our dialtone on only where absolutely needed, or if it's some temporary setup for our customers and we try to corral them to a network monitor solution or a cellular / wireless / AESnet setup, again as others have mentioned, it will all depend on the jurisdiction and what they allow/disallow/support. On Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 19:30 Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> wrote:
VoIP protocol is SIP.
Camille Issa 919-623-2137 ------------------------------ *From:* Dennis <dennislv at gmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:00:19 PM *To:* Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> *Cc:* voiceops at voiceops.org <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Subject:* Re: [VoiceOps] ATAs compatible with fire alarm panels
What signalling protocol are they using?
We have a few Ademco Contact-ID panels out there. I've had good luck using Grandstreams with inband dtmf.
Thanks... -Dennis
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 1:36 PM Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
Camille Issa | Vice President, Sales * Alianza ? The Cloud Communications Platform Company*
Call Or *Text* 919-229-4040 | camille at alianza.com Alianza <http://www.alianza.com/> | Blog <http://www.alianza.com/call-to-the-cloud> | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/alianza> | Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/alianza_inc>
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I may have been actually talking about Ademco Express, but now I know there's more than what I even thought... Sheesh. Either way, we try to have our setup only be just a stepping stone when moving people off of POTS and consolidating their services. http://www.emergency24.com/cp/formats.aspx On Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 21:18 Nick Garrett <nick.garrett at rival5.com> wrote:
They're referring to the signaling type of the fire alarm dialer to the monitoring service / central station. There are different types including different kinds of pulsing, and then the Ademco contact ID which is mainly used in addressable systems.
We have had luck with the 4+2 and other pulse dialings but mixed results with contact ID since it is dumped onto the line so quickly (I have a recording of it somewhere - it's very quick and sometimes is too quick where it is not received reliably - inband DTMF settings or not). It seems that systems with Ademco contact ID also like to call out a lot more than pulse systems likely because they're busier systems and probably more to report on.
We usually put our dialtone on only where absolutely needed, or if it's some temporary setup for our customers and we try to corral them to a network monitor solution or a cellular / wireless / AESnet setup, again as others have mentioned, it will all depend on the jurisdiction and what they allow/disallow/support.
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 19:30 Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> wrote:
VoIP protocol is SIP.
Camille Issa 919-623-2137 ------------------------------ *From:* Dennis <dennislv at gmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:00:19 PM *To:* Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> *Cc:* voiceops at voiceops.org <voiceops at voiceops.org> *Subject:* Re: [VoiceOps] ATAs compatible with fire alarm panels
What signalling protocol are they using?
We have a few Ademco Contact-ID panels out there. I've had good luck using Grandstreams with inband dtmf.
Thanks... -Dennis
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 1:36 PM Camille Issa <camille at alianza.com> wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
Camille Issa | Vice President, Sales * Alianza ? The Cloud Communications Platform Company*
Call Or *Text* 919-229-4040 | camille at alianza.com Alianza <http://www.alianza.com/> | Blog <http://www.alianza.com/call-to-the-cloud> | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/alianza> | Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/alianza_inc>
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 12/15/20 13:34, Camille Issa wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
In California at least it's two analog lines required for fire alarms. You can use RJ31X series jacks to share them with other utility-type applications downstream like fax machines, postage meters, etc. We had a customer who wanted to use FXS ports off of our TA900 Adtran for this and while it would technically work just fine as far as compatibility we (and the fire alarm company) insisted that they keep the analog lines. A few months later one of the batteries powering their big UPS exploded, taking the Adtran out of service as well as generating copious amounts of toxic smoke. The fire alarm worked and the damage was very limited. -- Jay Hennigan - jay at west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
What will happen when analog does actually go away? We've been recommending that customers simply call their alarm company to get cellular service. I haven't heard a lot of feedback but one or two confirmed that's what they did. On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 3:05 PM Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net> wrote:
On 12/15/20 13:34, Camille Issa wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
In California at least it's two analog lines required for fire alarms. You can use RJ31X series jacks to share them with other utility-type applications downstream like fax machines, postage meters, etc.
We had a customer who wanted to use FXS ports off of our TA900 Adtran for this and while it would technically work just fine as far as compatibility we (and the fire alarm company) insisted that they keep the analog lines.
A few months later one of the batteries powering their big UPS exploded, taking the Adtran out of service as well as generating copious amounts of toxic smoke. The fire alarm worked and the damage was very limited.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay at west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Local Fire Marshalls actually have substantial discretion in approving the types of links used. In my experience in North Carolina (USA), a local fire marshall near Raleigh can have different judgments about the effective communication methods available than a fire marshall near Charlotte. In particular the line used to be "nothing VoIP...but it's OK if one path uses a digital phone service from your cable company". In the only commercial building I'm personally involved with, we installed modules for both direct Internet and GSM connections, as Carlos suggested. Analog will be here as long as we <https://www.audiocodes.com/solutions-products/products/digital-and-analog-me...> keep <https://www.patton.com/voip-gateway/sn4140/> installing <https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/unified-communications/ata...> new <http://www.grandstream.com/products/gateways-and-atas/analog-telephone-adapt...> FXS <https://ribboncommunications.com/products/enterprise-products/cloud-and-edge...> ports <https://www.polycom.com/content/dam/polycom/common/documents/data-sheets/obi...>. Mark R Lindsey, SMTS | +1-229-316-0013 | mark at ecg.co | https://ecg.co/lindsey/ <https://ecg.co/lindsey/>
On Jan 7, 2021, at 5:16 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
What will happen when analog does actually go away?
We've been recommending that customers simply call their alarm company to get cellular service. I haven't heard a lot of feedback but one or two confirmed that's what they did.
On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 3:05 PM Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net <mailto:jay at west.net>> wrote: On 12/15/20 13:34, Camille Issa wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
In California at least it's two analog lines required for fire alarms. You can use RJ31X series jacks to share them with other utility-type applications downstream like fax machines, postage meters, etc.
We had a customer who wanted to use FXS ports off of our TA900 Adtran for this and while it would technically work just fine as far as compatibility we (and the fire alarm company) insisted that they keep the analog lines.
A few months later one of the batteries powering their big UPS exploded, taking the Adtran out of service as well as generating copious amounts of toxic smoke. The fire alarm worked and the damage was very limited.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay at west.net <mailto:jay at west.net> Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops <https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops> _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 15/12/2020 21:34, Camille Issa wrote:
Hello all ? looking for recommendations (other than keeping the analog line) for VoIP ATA?s that are compatible with fire alarm panels. Anyone got a good working solution out there?
I would honestly update the fire alarm.? Or at least the comms board in the alarm. Our alarm has dual channel monitoring.? Ethernet into our internet (We have 4 diverse connections with BGP) and a backup? 4G modem. Both channels are fairly continuously monitored and we get pretty instant alerts from the monitoring company if either channel fails. It's actually 1 combined comms board that does both the intruder alarm and the fire alarm.?? When we changed to this arrangement, they swapped a GSM/analog comms board for an ethernet/4G? comms board. It is good because the intruder alarm beeps and moans if a comms channel is down.? And you have to say yes to acknowledge if you want to lock up. Why potentially risk lives on crappy dialup and analogue lines? And then make it worse by putting an ATA in the mix?? If you have a fire, you will want the fire service really quickly. ***** Like 15 years ago when the voip technology really started coming together, loads of service providers were nonchalant about even routing 999 calls (in UK, 112 or 911 in other regions). Excuses like: "We will tell them they have to keep a landline somewhere"? or "They can use their mobiles" or "When do people call that" To be honest, I was a bit `That is something we can sort later`.?? The regulator leaned and people woke up a bit. One service provider said `I've done all the work for 999, all the passing address details properly,? and we carried 12 calls yesterday`.? I think they had about 10k customers then.? So that is 12 ambulances, police incidents? ..... Another service provider were really worried about nuisance calls.? Or something going wrong.? So decided to raise a priority task into their support team whenever any customer dialled 999 and they would immediately follow up.??? 999 call went through, ITSP support team rang the main reception of their customer with `bob has just dialled 999, is that a real emergency or what?` Anyway, bob's colleagues found him collapsed in his office, they got medical help and he lived.?? Seems he'd dialled 999 but didn't stay conscious enough to say anything. With these stories around, all the UK service providers (through people like ITSPA) got their acts together and got 999 sorted. Which drives home to me.? These emergency things you need once every 5 or 10 years.? When you need them, you need them.? And if they don't work, it is lives on the line. Tim -- Tim Bray Huddersfield, GB tim at kooky.org
participants (11)
-
aaron＠heyaaron.com -
bsvec＠teamonesolutions.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
camille＠alianza.com -
dennislv＠gmail.com -
jay＠west.net -
jorge.guntanis＠ring.cr -
lindsey＠e-c-group.com -
nick.garrett＠rival5.com -
pete＠mac.geek.nz -
tim＠kooky.org