Screwy DSL modem NAT troubles
Has anyone else noticed that the latest batch of DSL modems have broken NAT when it comes to VoIP? I'm seeing stable VoIP customer get broken when the DSL modem is swapped out. The modem NATs the phones to modem IP port 5060. So, 10 phones behind the router become one phone to the SBC. A race condition occurs and phones go in and out of service at random. It looks like the router is trying to do a SIP ALG but very very broken. Do anyone have a DSL modem/router they use that works well with VoIP? -- Matthew S. Crocker President Crocker Communications, Inc. PO BOX 710 Greenfield, MA 01302-0710 http://www.crocker.com P: 413-746-2760
On 02/21/2011 05:39 PM, Matthew S. Crocker wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the latest batch of DSL modems have broken NAT when it comes to VoIP? I'm seeing stable VoIP customer get broken when the DSL modem is swapped out. The modem NATs the phones to modem IP port 5060. So, 10 phones behind the router become one phone to the SBC. A race condition occurs and phones go in and out of service at random. It looks like the router is trying to do a SIP ALG but very very broken.
Latest batch of which modems from which manufacturer? :) Trick that always works for me: Change the phone signaling port to something else. If that still doesn't work, change the phone's presentation of its external IP (Polycom phones, at least, have their own "let the phone help with far-end NAT traversal" settings) to something other than what the IP of the phone actually is. It tends to confuse ALGs and make them turn off. -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 260 Peachtree Street NW Suite 2200 Atlanta, GA 30303 Tel: +1-678-954-0670 Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/
We go through this all the time with Qwest DSL customers. Unfortunately I don't have model numbers for you, we stopped documenting things when we noticed that they have all new modems every few months. However we've had success with having the customer call Qwest and tell them they want to run VoIP phones, the Qwest reps seem to know that as a trigger and send a compatible modem. I do recall that the best ones are Netopia, and we've had good support when we engage them directly via chat. We also find that modems start going bad slowly after a couple years, and VoIP is the first to get impacted, of course. Matthew S. Crocker wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the latest batch of DSL modems have broken NAT when it comes to VoIP? I'm seeing stable VoIP customer get broken when the DSL modem is swapped out. The modem NATs the phones to modem IP port 5060. So, 10 phones behind the router become one phone to the SBC. A race condition occurs and phones go in and out of service at random. It looks like the router is trying to do a SIP ALG but very very broken.
Do anyone have a DSL modem/router they use that works well with VoIP?
-- Carlos Alvarez TelEvolve 602-889-3003
Linksys ALG seems to break everything sip on the firewall side sonicwall seems to be the death of sip. Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 ?Fax: ?+1 650 246 8901 / carlos *at* race.com / www.race.com -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 3:08 PM Cc: voiceops Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Screwy DSL modem NAT troubles We go through this all the time with Qwest DSL customers. Unfortunately I don't have model numbers for you, we stopped documenting things when we noticed that they have all new modems every few months. However we've had success with having the customer call Qwest and tell them they want to run VoIP phones, the Qwest reps seem to know that as a trigger and send a compatible modem. I do recall that the best ones are Netopia, and we've had good support when we engage them directly via chat. We also find that modems start going bad slowly after a couple years, and VoIP is the first to get impacted, of course. Matthew S. Crocker wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the latest batch of DSL modems have broken NAT when it comes to VoIP? I'm seeing stable VoIP customer get broken when the DSL modem is swapped out. The modem NATs the phones to modem IP port 5060. So, 10 phones behind the router become one phone to the SBC. A race condition occurs and phones go in and out of service at random. It looks like the router is trying to do a SIP ALG but very very broken.
Do anyone have a DSL modem/router they use that works well with VoIP?
-- Carlos Alvarez TelEvolve 602-889-3003 _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Ill second Alex's sentiment on abandoning port 5060 and make the traffic look like something other than SIP so the ALG doesn't get triggered. We've been doing this for years, works like a charm. Speaking of, if anyone from Linksys, D-Link or any other residential grade router manufacturer is out there listening, you have obviously devoted time and effort to coding these ALG's, why not make them work? I would love to hear why it seems there is a concentrated effort to absolutely break voip with atrociously coded ALG's. On Mon, 2011-02-21 at 22:19 -0800, Carlos Alcantar wrote:
Linksys ALG seems to break everything sip on the firewall side sonicwall seems to be the death of sip.
Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 Fax: +1 650 246 8901 / carlos *at* race.com / www.race.com
-----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 3:08 PM Cc: voiceops Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Screwy DSL modem NAT troubles
We go through this all the time with Qwest DSL customers. Unfortunately I don't have model numbers for you, we stopped documenting things when we noticed that they have all new modems every few months. However we've had success with having the customer call Qwest and tell them they want to run VoIP phones, the Qwest reps seem to know that as a trigger and send a compatible modem. I do recall that the best ones are Netopia, and we've had good support when we engage them directly via chat.
We also find that modems start going bad slowly after a couple years, and VoIP is the first to get impacted, of course.
Matthew S. Crocker wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the latest batch of DSL modems have broken NAT when it comes to VoIP? I'm seeing stable VoIP customer get broken when the DSL modem is swapped out. The modem NATs the phones to modem IP port 5060. So, 10 phones behind the router become one phone to the SBC. A race condition occurs and phones go in and out of service at random. It looks like the router is trying to do a SIP ALG but very very broken.
Do anyone have a DSL modem/router they use that works well with VoIP?
My favorite was the Netopia modems ATT/BS was deploying for some time with all their Business DSL circuits (anything with a static IP) that had an ?undocumented? ALG that could be disabled via the CLI but not the GUI, but it defaulted to on. It was of course horribly broken. -Scott From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of anorexicpoodle Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:28 AM To: Carlos Alcantar Cc: VoiceOps at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Screwy DSL modem NAT troubles Ill second Alex's sentiment on abandoning port 5060 and make the traffic look like something other than SIP so the ALG doesn't get triggered. We've been doing this for years, works like a charm. Speaking of, if anyone from Linksys, D-Link or any other residential grade router manufacturer is out there listening, you have obviously devoted time and effort to coding these ALG's, why not make them work? I would love to hear why it seems there is a concentrated effort to absolutely break voip with atrociously coded ALG's. On Mon, 2011-02-21 at 22:19 -0800, Carlos Alcantar wrote: Linksys ALG seems to break everything sip on the firewall side sonicwall seems to be the death of sip. Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 Fax: +1 650 246 8901 / carlos *at* race.com / www.race.com -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 3:08 PM Cc: voiceops Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Screwy DSL modem NAT troubles We go through this all the time with Qwest DSL customers. Unfortunately I don't have model numbers for you, we stopped documenting things when we noticed that they have all new modems every few months. However we've had success with having the customer call Qwest and tell them they want to run VoIP phones, the Qwest reps seem to know that as a trigger and send a compatible modem. I do recall that the best ones are Netopia, and we've had good support when we engage them directly via chat. We also find that modems start going bad slowly after a couple years, and VoIP is the first to get impacted, of course. Matthew S. Crocker wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the latest batch of DSL modems have broken NAT when it comes to VoIP? I'm seeing stable VoIP customer get broken when the DSL modem is swapped out. The modem NATs the phones to modem IP port 5060. So, 10 phones behind the router become one phone to the SBC. A race condition occurs and phones go in and out of service at random. It looks like the router is trying to do a SIP ALG but very very broken.
Do anyone have a DSL modem/router they use that works well with VoIP?
Zoom X5 routers used to work but their new version doesn't Zhone DSL routes used to work but their new version doesn't Netopia/Motorola seem to work ok Never have problems with Sonicwall if we shut the SIP ALG off. Cisco ASA with SIP inspection on work well I'm going to reconfigure my Acme to accept SIP on port 8060 or something and see if that works with these junky DSL ----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Alcantar" <carlos at race.com> To: VoiceOps at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:19:07 AM Subject: [VoiceOps] Screwy DSL modem NAT troubles Linksys ALG seems to break everything sip on the firewall side sonicwall seems to be the death of sip.
Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 Fax: +1 650 246 8901 / carlos *at* race.com / www.race.com
-----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 3:08 PM Cc: voiceops Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Screwy DSL modem NAT troubles
We go through this all the time with Qwest DSL customers. Unfortunately I don't have model numbers for you, we stopped documenting things when we noticed that they have all new modems every few months. However we've had success with having the customer call Qwest and tell them they want to run VoIP phones, the Qwest reps seem to know that as a trigger and send a compatible modem. I do recall that the best ones are Netopia, and we've had good support when we engage them directly via chat.
We also find that modems start going bad slowly after a couple years, and VoIP is the first to get impacted, of course.
Matthew S. Crocker wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the latest batch of DSL modems have broken NAT when it comes to VoIP? I'm seeing stable VoIP customer get broken when the DSL modem is swapped out. The modem NATs the phones to modem IP port 5060. So, 10 phones behind the router become one phone to the SBC. A race condition occurs and phones go in and out of service at random. It looks like the router is trying to do a SIP ALG but very very broken.
Do anyone have a DSL modem/router they use that works well with VoIP?
-- Carlos Alvarez TelEvolve 602-889-3003
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Matthew S. Crocker President Crocker Communications, Inc. PO BOX 710 Greenfield, MA 01302-0710 http://www.crocker.com P: 413-746-2760
Carlos Alcantar wrote:
Linksys ALG seems to break everything sip on the firewall side sonicwall seems to be the death of sip.
We have around 100 sites using Sonicwall. We turn on NAT transormations and the SIP ALG and see 100% reliability. Agreed on the Linksys ALG, not needed, breaks everything. -- Carlos Alvarez TelEvolve 602-889-3003
On 22/02/11 15:57, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Carlos Alcantar wrote:
Linksys ALG seems to break everything sip on the firewall side sonicwall seems to be the death of sip.
We have around 100 sites using Sonicwall. We turn on NAT transormations and the SIP ALG and see 100% reliability.
Agreed on the Linksys ALG, not needed, breaks everything.
It often depends on the type of phones. For instance on a Snom phone, switch off GRUU and you get much less breakage through ALGs. Tim
On 02/21/2011 06:08 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
having the customer call Qwest and tell them they want to run VoIP phones, the Qwest reps seem to know that as a trigger and send a compatible modem.
Better ILEC than ours. Down here in AT&T (BellSouth) and Comcast land, the only thing that's a trigger for is poaching your customer. -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 260 Peachtree Street NW Suite 2200 Atlanta, GA 30303 Tel: +1-678-954-0670 Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/
Alex Balashov wrote:
Better ILEC than ours. Down here in AT&T (BellSouth) and Comcast land, the only thing that's a trigger for is poaching your customer.
Haha, well, they try, and our customers tell us. But then the customer asks about price and features, conversation ends... -- Carlos Alvarez TelEvolve 602-889-3003
participants (7)
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abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
anorexicpoodle＠gmail.com -
carlos＠race.com -
carlos＠televolve.com -
matthew＠corp.crocker.com -
scott＠sberkman.net -
tim＠kooky.org