Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that Inteliquent did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs they serve, given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers on the same tandem, so universal coverage would require connections to every tandem. We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to expand our footprint. So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my LATA? In my LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs (like Chicago) have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't provide service in the rate centers traditionally served by that tandem? It seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in that town uses. So then I could port a number from any rate center in my LATA (say Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem switch that the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside world perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given the porting limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a tandem-by-tandem basis. So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to if I want to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls to a different tandem? My current customer complaint is for calls that we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem. If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other tandem would affect inbound traffic to me. Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink hops through almost every town going that way (former LightCore and others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able to get me a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that. I'm aware that I could still be completely missing the mark. BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago, but haven't for many ages. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Timmins" <ptimmins at clearrate.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc. If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls. On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote: I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't the case. Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they pointed to is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally used by carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we send traffic to that tandem. The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of that tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door. Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements that would apply to this and related bits of info I should know? I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has the authoritative information, but I don't have that access at the moment. Maybe we're not subscribed to it. Number NPA-NXX in town A: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9... LRN NPA-NXX in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9... Tandem in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T Tandem in town C: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T Thanks. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
Most providers simply connect to the tandem at the ILEC. The end office transit termination and origination cost is SO LOW that it doesn't make since to have a switch or access point at the end office. Since most things are ILEC if not all are VOIP everything is coming from a centralize switch point. Hopefully all the 1970's billing methods will disappear. On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that Inteliquent did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs they serve, given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers on the same tandem, so universal coverage would require connections to every tandem. We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to expand our footprint.
So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my LATA? In my LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs (like Chicago) have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't provide service in the rate centers traditionally served by that tandem? It seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in that town uses.
So then I could port a number from any rate center in my LATA (say Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem switch that the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside world perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given the porting limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a tandem-by-tandem basis.
So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to if I want to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls to a different tandem? My current customer complaint is for calls that we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem.
If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other tandem would affect inbound traffic to me.
Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink hops through almost every town going that way (former LightCore and others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able to get me a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that.
I'm aware that I could still be completely missing the mark.
BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago, but haven't for many ages.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Paul Timmins" <ptimmins at clearrate.com> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> *Cc: *voiceops at voiceops.org *Sent: *Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls.
On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote: I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't the case.
Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they pointed to is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally used by carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we send traffic to that tandem.
The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of that tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door.
Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements that would apply to this and related bits of info I should know?
I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has the authoritative information, but I don't have that access at the moment. Maybe we're not subscribed to it.
Number NPA-NXX in town A: https://www.telcodata.us/ search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=991 LRN NPA-NXX in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange- detail?npa=815&exchange=901 Tandem in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem- clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T Tandem in town C: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem- clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T
Thanks.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I thought everyone connected to the ILEC-hosted tandem responsible for the rate centers where the number blocks were assigned, but that seems to not always be the case when there are multiple ILEC-hosted tandems in a LATA. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik" <erik at eespro.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 7:25:40 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc. Most providers simply connect to the tandem at the ILEC. The end office transit termination and origination cost is SO LOW that it doesn't make since to have a switch or access point at the end office. Since most things are ILEC if not all are VOIP everything is coming from a centralize switch point. Hopefully all the 1970's billing methods will disappear. On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Mike Hammett < voiceops at ics-il.net > wrote: Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that Inteliquent did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs they serve, given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers on the same tandem, so universal coverage would require connections to every tandem. We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to expand our footprint. So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my LATA? In my LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs (like Chicago) have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't provide service in the rate centers traditionally served by that tandem? It seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in that town uses. So then I could port a number from any rate center in my LATA (say Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem switch that the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside world perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given the porting limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a tandem-by-tandem basis. So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to if I want to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls to a different tandem? My current customer complaint is for calls that we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem. If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other tandem would affect inbound traffic to me. Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink hops through almost every town going that way (former LightCore and others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able to get me a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that. I'm aware that I could still be completely missing the mark. BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago, but haven't for many ages. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Paul Timmins" < ptimmins at clearrate.com > To: "Mike Hammett" < voiceops at ics-il.net > Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc. If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls. On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett < voiceops at ics-il.net > wrote: I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't the case. Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they pointed to is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally used by carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we send traffic to that tandem. The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of that tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door. Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements that would apply to this and related bits of info I should know? I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has the authoritative information, but I don't have that access at the moment. Maybe we're not subscribed to it. Number NPA-NXX in town A: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9... LRN NPA-NXX in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9... Tandem in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T Tandem in town C: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T Thanks. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
When there are multiple ILECs in a LATA like in LA - LATA 730, you would set up an interconnection point with each ILEC. So you'd have one for the AT&T areas and one for the old Verizon areas. When you have trunks to both carriers in the LATA, you can use your own network to switch traffic from the one LATA to the other LATA, but you can't deliver it to the ILEC and expect them to hand it off to the other ILEC. It would work the same with the third party providers.......as long as they have a connection in both ILEC areas, then they can use their own network to deliver the traffic from the one ILEC area to the other ILEC area. Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-771-7868 (temporary) Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2018-08-28 08:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I thought everyone connected to the ILEC-hosted tandem responsible for the rate centers where the number blocks were assigned, but that seems to not always be the case when there are multiple ILEC-hosted tandems in a LATA.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
FROM: "Erik" <erik at eespro.com> TO: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 7:25:40 PM SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
Most providers simply connect to the tandem at the ILEC. The end office transit termination and origination cost is SO LOW that it doesn't make since to have a switch or access point at the end office. Since most things are ILEC if not all are VOIP everything is coming from a centralize switch point. Hopefully all the 1970's billing methods will disappear.
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that Inteliquent did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs they serve, given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers on the same tandem, so universal coverage would require connections to every tandem. We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to expand our footprint.
So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my LATA? In my LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs (like Chicago) have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't provide service in the rate centers traditionally served by that tandem? It seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in that town uses.
So then I could port a number from any rate center in my LATA (say Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem switch that the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside world perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given the porting limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a tandem-by-tandem basis.
So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to if I want to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls to a different tandem? My current customer complaint is for calls that we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem.
If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other tandem would affect inbound traffic to me.
Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink hops through almost every town going that way (former LightCore and others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able to get me a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that.
I'm aware that I could still be completely missing the mark.
BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago, but haven't for many ages.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
FROM: "Paul Timmins" <ptimmins at clearrate.com> TO: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls.
On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't the case.
Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they pointed to is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally used by carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we send traffic to that tandem.
The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of that tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door.
Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements that would apply to this and related bits of info I should know?
I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has the authoritative information, but I don't have that access at the moment. Maybe we're not subscribed to it.
Number NPA-NXX in town A:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
LRN NPA-NXX in town B:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
Tandem in town B:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T
Tandem in town C:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T
Thanks.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
It's true that in the metropolitan areas the ILECs will allow you to trunk everything to the tandem, but the routing for rural areas is handled totally different in some ILEC areas. The old CenturyLink used to force carriers in some rural areas to deliver to the end office if the office associated with the rate center because it was so far out that the office had no local tandem. Others like the old Qwest territories let you route all traffic from the switches that had no local tandem over the Access Tandem if you had SPOP (Single Point of Presence) language in your agreement. The old BellSouth areas let you establish one Multi-tandem supergroup for the entire ILEC area and just charged you minutes of use anytime they had to inter-tandem a call. Every ILEC territory is just a little different, but they all share commonalities that they require you to route the LRN NXX to the tandem (or EO if there is no local tandem) that it is served by. Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-771-7868 (temporary) Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2018-08-28 07:25 PM, Erik wrote:
Most providers simply connect to the tandem at the ILEC. The end office transit termination and origination cost is SO LOW that it doesn't make since to have a switch or access point at the end office. Since most things are ILEC if not all are VOIP everything is coming from a centralize switch point. Hopefully all the 1970's billing methods will disappear.
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that Inteliquent did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs they serve, given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers on the same tandem, so universal coverage would require connections to every tandem. We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to expand our footprint.
So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my LATA? In my LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs (like Chicago) have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't provide service in the rate centers traditionally served by that tandem? It seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in that town uses.
So then I could port a number from any rate center in my LATA (say Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem switch that the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside world perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given the porting limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a tandem-by-tandem basis.
So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to if I want to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls to a different tandem? My current customer complaint is for calls that we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem.
If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other tandem would affect inbound traffic to me.
Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink hops through almost every town going that way (former LightCore and others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able to get me a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that.
I'm aware that I could still be completely missing the mark.
BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago, but haven't for many ages.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
FROM: "Paul Timmins" <ptimmins at clearrate.com> TO: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls.
On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't the case.
Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they pointed to is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally used by carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we send traffic to that tandem.
The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of that tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door.
Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements that would apply to this and related bits of info I should know?
I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has the authoritative information, but I don't have that access at the moment. Maybe we're not subscribed to it.
Number NPA-NXX in town A:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
[1] LRN NPA-NXX in town B:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
[2] Tandem in town B:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T
[3] Tandem in town C:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T
[4]
Thanks.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops [5]
Links: ------ [1] https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=991 [2] https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=901 [3] https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T [4] https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T [5] https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
If you have an LRN in the ILEC tandem provider's area, you can port to/from any rate center in that ILEC area. If there are small ILECs that use the big ILEC's tandem, you can also port to/from those rate centers. However, if you have more than 24 DS0s worth of traffic to that small ILEC area, the small ILEC can force you to install a direct connection to them. That doesn't happen very often but I've seen it happen a few times. If you're using a third party provider like Inteliquent, you need to have an LRN in every LATA that you want to port numbers in/out of. Your traffic can traverse their network between LATAs through your one connection with them, but in the background Inteliquent has to have connections with each tandem provider in both areas in order for it to work. That's why they give you a list of all the rate centers that they cover when you sign up with them! Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-771-7868 (temporary) Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2018-08-28 06:00 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that Inteliquent did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs they serve, given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers on the same tandem, so universal coverage would require connections to every tandem. We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to expand our footprint.
So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my LATA? In my LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs (like Chicago) have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't provide service in the rate centers traditionally served by that tandem? It seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in that town uses.
So then I could port a number from any rate center in my LATA (say Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem switch that the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside world perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given the porting limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a tandem-by-tandem basis.
So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to if I want to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls to a different tandem? My current customer complaint is for calls that we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem.
If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other tandem would affect inbound traffic to me.
Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink hops through almost every town going that way (former LightCore and others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able to get me a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that.
I'm aware that I could still be completely missing the mark.
BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago, but haven't for many ages.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
FROM: "Paul Timmins" <ptimmins at clearrate.com> TO: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls.
On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't the case.
Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they pointed to is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally used by carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we send traffic to that tandem.
The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of that tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door.
Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements that would apply to this and related bits of info I should know?
I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has the authoritative information, but I don't have that access at the moment. Maybe we're not subscribed to it.
Number NPA-NXX in town A: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
LRN NPA-NXX in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
Tandem in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T Tandem in town C: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T
Thanks.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:56:59AM -0500, BackUP Telecom Consulting wrote:
However, if you have more than 24 DS0s worth of traffic to that small ILEC area, the small ILEC can force you to install a direct connection to them. That doesn't happen very often but I've seen it happen a few times.
Ah, you've reignited my nostalgia for flying-under-the-DEOTs adventures of the managed modem boom... Picking inbound up at the tandem from Tier 3+ / rural rate centres was commonly done by CLECs providing managed modem. These were the kinds of rate centres where the Level3s, Grandecoms, etc. of the world would not go because there aren't enough ports, but there was enough traffic there to constitute more than just the occasional call. Not coincidentally, when broadband appeared, these places were the last to get it and represented most of the lingering demand for dial-up, triggering a spike in DEOT-related disputes. -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
I am an AOCN and have real time access to the LERG so just out of curiosity and because I like mysteries, I looked up your example to see what you were talking about. Comcast's records in LATA 364 are a mess! Most of Comcast's NXXs were assigned back in 11/07/13. When it was originally added, Comcast had it homed on the DKLBILXA50T tandem, which is correct. Then in February 2016 someone made a SHA change to their switch record and changed the tandem to DIXNILXA50T for the Local and IntraLATA tandems and CHCGILWU24T for the FGD Tandem. My guess is that Comcast initially set it up correctly, but when they added the CenturyLink territory of the LATA, they didn't add a second switch homing arrangement and LRN for the CenturyLink territory like they should have. I can't explain why it works unless there just haven't been any new companies since 2016. I would call Frontier back and tell them that they must have trunks established with Comcast because they have a bunch of NXXs in their territory that were set up in November 2013. Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-771-7868 (temporary) Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2018-08-28 06:00 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that Inteliquent did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs they serve, given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers on the same tandem, so universal coverage would require connections to every tandem. We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to expand our footprint.
So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my LATA? In my LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs (like Chicago) have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't provide service in the rate centers traditionally served by that tandem? It seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in that town uses.
So then I could port a number from any rate center in my LATA (say Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem switch that the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside world perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given the porting limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a tandem-by-tandem basis.
So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to if I want to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls to a different tandem? My current customer complaint is for calls that we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem.
If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other tandem would affect inbound traffic to me.
Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink hops through almost every town going that way (former LightCore and others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able to get me a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that.
I'm aware that I could still be completely missing the mark.
BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago, but haven't for many ages.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
FROM: "Paul Timmins" <ptimmins at clearrate.com> TO: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls.
On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't the case.
Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they pointed to is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally used by carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we send traffic to that tandem.
The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of that tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door.
Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements that would apply to this and related bits of info I should know?
I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has the authoritative information, but I don't have that access at the moment. Maybe we're not subscribed to it.
Number NPA-NXX in town A: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
LRN NPA-NXX in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
Tandem in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T Tandem in town C: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T
Thanks.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
So then as someone fairly new to the telco side (brief run down of how things worked fifteen years ago, then moved on to IP, microwave, etc. to avoid regulatory nightmares... now responsible for the operations of a company doing each part themselves), my confusion is understandable? Understood on the > 24 DS0s part. We have some DS1s to specific towns in addition to the tandem connection. If I were working with rate centers off of the other tandem, having a connection to the other tandem makes sense. However, my only dealings with that other tandem is that Comcast moved their LRN over there. I'll reach out to Frontier and see what we can do. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "BackUP Telecom Consulting" <marylou at backuptelecom.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:34:18 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc. I am an AOCN and have real time access to the LERG so just out of curiosity and because I like mysteries, I looked up your example to see what you were talking about. Comcast's records in LATA 364 are a mess! Most of Comcast's NXXs were assigned back in 11/07/13. When it was originally added, Comcast had it homed on the DKLBILXA50T tandem, which is correct. Then in February 2016 someone made a SHA change to their switch record and changed the tandem to DIXNILXA50T for the Local and IntraLATA tandems and CHCGILWU24T for the FGD Tandem. My guess is that Comcast initially set it up correctly, but when they added the CenturyLink territory of the LATA, they didn't add a second switch homing arrangement and LRN for the CenturyLink territory like they should have. I can't explain why it works unless there just haven't been any new companies since 2016. I would call Frontier back and tell them that they must have trunks established with Comcast because they have a bunch of NXXs in their territory that were set up in November 2013. Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-771-7868 (temporary) Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2018-08-28 06:00 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that Inteliquent did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs they serve, given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers on the same tandem, so universal coverage would require connections to every tandem. We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to expand our footprint.
So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my LATA? In my LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs (like Chicago) have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't provide service in the rate centers traditionally served by that tandem? It seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in that town uses.
So then I could port a number from any rate center in my LATA (say Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem switch that the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside world perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given the porting limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a tandem-by-tandem basis.
So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to if I want to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls to a different tandem? My current customer complaint is for calls that we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem.
If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other tandem would affect inbound traffic to me.
Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink hops through almost every town going that way (former LightCore and others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able to get me a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that.
I'm aware that I could still be completely missing the mark.
BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago, but haven't for many ages.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
FROM: "Paul Timmins" <ptimmins at clearrate.com> TO: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls.
On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't the case.
Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they pointed to is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally used by carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we send traffic to that tandem.
The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of that tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door.
Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements that would apply to this and related bits of info I should know?
I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has the authoritative information, but I don't have that access at the moment. Maybe we're not subscribed to it.
Number NPA-NXX in town A: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
LRN NPA-NXX in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=9...
Tandem in town B: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T Tandem in town C: https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T
Thanks.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (4)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
erik＠eespro.com -
marylou＠backuptelecom.com -
voiceops＠ics-il.net