Starting to collect quotes for SHAKEN cert signing from STI-CAs, and got our first response back. I also got whiplash at the same time. Although I didn't have to sign an NDA or agree to any kind of confidentiality in order to get this response, since nobody seemingly wants to publish their pricing, I will (at least for the time being) keep both the quote itself as well as the vendor name close to my chest. But...dang. Though I'm hoping to be surprised, I'm guessing that there isn't a wide difference in pricing between various STI-CAs. Can people here confirm that I'm likely to mostly hear same-y figures from others? Or if there are options that are significantly cheaper than others, who do y'all recommend that I should be talking to? Note that I'm only talking about the CA component as a standalone offering, though I'll observe that with very few exceptions, it also doesn't seem like too many vendors are either willing to unbundle the CA service from their overall "end-to-end cloud-based SHAKEN" products, or if they are, they seemingly don't like to publicize it. To put my response to this pricing in context, we are a relatively small regional broadband provider, and voice is a fraction of a fraction of our business. I'd wager just about everyone else here has a larger voice subscriber base than we do, and most of you probably didn't blink when you saw the price-tag on what it would take to become part of the STIR/SHAKEN ecosystem...just the cost of doing business, right? We do have effective CLID anti-spoof already & have since the beginning, and as a small provider, we also were *supposed* to have another 12 months to get up to speed on all of this and start signing calls...at least, that was the case until the FCC moved that timetable up in what I can only describe as a Darth Vader-esque "altering [of] the deal". We didn't get that memo in December but only about 3ish months ago, and it's not like I don't have plenty of other things to do, so I'm already coming into this project plenty pissed off... *sigh* Anyway, I can see that the gate-keepery-ness of this industry is still alive and well. Though I can understand wanting to keep out the riff-raff, you would think that all of the hurdles that one needs to clear in order to get this far -- getting an OCN, on-boarding with the STI-PA, etc. -- would be enough without also throwing yet another huge mandatory & ongoing expense on top of the pile as well. Sorry. Didn't mean for this to turn into a rant, but...ugh. -- Nathan Anderson First Step Internet, LLC nathana at fsr.com
As far as I know, NEUSTAR is the only CA that will allow you to get a token without using their STIR/SHAKEN services.I know that there are multiple options for the STIR/SHAKEN products so make sure to ask about the various products / price ranges. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2022-06-03 10:22 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:
Starting to collect quotes for SHAKEN cert signing from STI-CAs, and got our first response back.
I also got whiplash at the same time.
Although I didn't have to sign an NDA or agree to any kind of confidentiality in order to get this response, since nobody seemingly wants to publish their pricing, I will (at least for the time being) keep both the quote itself as well as the vendor name close to my chest. But...dang.
Though I'm hoping to be surprised, I'm guessing that there isn't a wide difference in pricing between various STI-CAs. Can people here confirm that I'm likely to mostly hear same-y figures from others? Or if there are options that are significantly cheaper than others, who do y'all recommend that I should be talking to?
Note that I'm only talking about the CA component as a standalone offering, though I'll observe that with very few exceptions, it also doesn't seem like too many vendors are either willing to unbundle the CA service from their overall "end-to-end cloud-based SHAKEN" products, or if they are, they seemingly don't like to publicize it.
To put my response to this pricing in context, we are a relatively small regional broadband provider, and voice is a fraction of a fraction of our business. I'd wager just about everyone else here has a larger voice subscriber base than we do, and most of you probably didn't blink when you saw the price-tag on what it would take to become part of the STIR/SHAKEN ecosystem...just the cost of doing business, right?
We do have effective CLID anti-spoof already & have since the beginning, and as a small provider, we also were *supposed* to have another 12 months to get up to speed on all of this and start signing calls...at least, that was the case until the FCC moved that timetable up in what I can only describe as a Darth Vader-esque "altering [of] the deal". We didn't get that memo in December but only about 3ish months ago, and it's not like I don't have plenty of other things to do, so I'm already coming into this project plenty pissed off...
*sigh* Anyway, I can see that the gate-keepery-ness of this industry is still alive and well. Though I can understand wanting to keep out the riff-raff, you would think that all of the hurdles that one needs to clear in order to get this far -- getting an OCN, on-boarding with the STI-PA, etc. -- would be enough without also throwing yet another huge mandatory & ongoing expense on top of the pile as well.
Sorry. Didn't mean for this to turn into a rant, but...ugh.
-- Nathan Anderson First Step Internet, LLC nathana at fsr.com
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Transnexus also has a CA they sell separately. https://transnexus.com/sti-ca/ <https://transnexus.com/sti-ca/>
On Jun 4, 2022, at 2:05 PM, Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
As far as I know, NEUSTAR is the only CA that will allow you to get a token without using their STIR/SHAKEN services.I know that there are multiple options for the STIR/SHAKEN products so make sure to ask about the various products / price ranges.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2022-06-03 10:22 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:
Starting to collect quotes for SHAKEN cert signing from STI-CAs, and got our first response back. I also got whiplash at the same time. Although I didn't have to sign an NDA or agree to any kind of confidentiality in order to get this response, since nobody seemingly wants to publish their pricing, I will (at least for the time being) keep both the quote itself as well as the vendor name close to my chest. But...dang. Though I'm hoping to be surprised, I'm guessing that there isn't a wide difference in pricing between various STI-CAs. Can people here confirm that I'm likely to mostly hear same-y figures from others? Or if there are options that are significantly cheaper than others, who do y'all recommend that I should be talking to? Note that I'm only talking about the CA component as a standalone offering, though I'll observe that with very few exceptions, it also doesn't seem like too many vendors are either willing to unbundle the CA service from their overall "end-to-end cloud-based SHAKEN" products, or if they are, they seemingly don't like to publicize it. To put my response to this pricing in context, we are a relatively small regional broadband provider, and voice is a fraction of a fraction of our business. I'd wager just about everyone else here has a larger voice subscriber base than we do, and most of you probably didn't blink when you saw the price-tag on what it would take to become part of the STIR/SHAKEN ecosystem...just the cost of doing business, right? We do have effective CLID anti-spoof already & have since the beginning, and as a small provider, we also were *supposed* to have another 12 months to get up to speed on all of this and start signing calls...at least, that was the case until the FCC moved that timetable up in what I can only describe as a Darth Vader-esque "altering [of] the deal". We didn't get that memo in December but only about 3ish months ago, and it's not like I don't have plenty of other things to do, so I'm already coming into this project plenty pissed off... *sigh* Anyway, I can see that the gate-keepery-ness of this industry is still alive and well. Though I can understand wanting to keep out the riff-raff, you would think that all of the hurdles that one needs to clear in order to get this far -- getting an OCN, on-boarding with the STI-PA, etc. -- would be enough without also throwing yet another huge mandatory & ongoing expense on top of the pile as well. Sorry. Didn't mean for this to turn into a rant, but...ugh. -- Nathan Anderson First Step Internet, LLC nathana at fsr.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Sansay provides the standalone CA solution as well if that?s what?s needed. On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 11:06 AM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
As far as I know, NEUSTAR is the only CA that will allow you to get a token without using their STIR/SHAKEN services.I know that there are multiple options for the STIR/SHAKEN products so make sure to ask about the various products / price ranges.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2022-06-03 10:22 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:
Starting to collect quotes for SHAKEN cert signing from STI-CAs, and got our first response back.
I also got whiplash at the same time.
Although I didn't have to sign an NDA or agree to any kind of confidentiality in order to get this response, since nobody seemingly wants to publish their pricing, I will (at least for the time being) keep both the quote itself as well as the vendor name close to my chest. But...dang.
Though I'm hoping to be surprised, I'm guessing that there isn't a wide difference in pricing between various STI-CAs. Can people here confirm that I'm likely to mostly hear same-y figures from others? Or if there are options that are significantly cheaper than others, who do y'all recommend that I should be talking to?
Note that I'm only talking about the CA component as a standalone offering, though I'll observe that with very few exceptions, it also doesn't seem like too many vendors are either willing to unbundle the CA service from their overall "end-to-end cloud-based SHAKEN" products, or if they are, they seemingly don't like to publicize it.
To put my response to this pricing in context, we are a relatively small regional broadband provider, and voice is a fraction of a fraction of our business. I'd wager just about everyone else here has a larger voice subscriber base than we do, and most of you probably didn't blink when you saw the price-tag on what it would take to become part of the STIR/SHAKEN ecosystem...just the cost of doing business, right?
We do have effective CLID anti-spoof already & have since the beginning, and as a small provider, we also were *supposed* to have another 12 months to get up to speed on all of this and start signing calls...at least, that was the case until the FCC moved that timetable up in what I can only describe as a Darth Vader-esque "altering [of] the deal". We didn't get that memo in December but only about 3ish months ago, and it's not like I don't have plenty of other things to do, so I'm already coming into this project plenty pissed off...
*sigh* Anyway, I can see that the gate-keepery-ness of this industry is still alive and well. Though I can understand wanting to keep out the riff-raff, you would think that all of the hurdles that one needs to clear in order to get this far -- getting an OCN, on-boarding with the STI-PA, etc. -- would be enough without also throwing yet another huge mandatory & ongoing expense on top of the pile as well.
Sorry. Didn't mean for this to turn into a rant, but...ugh.
-- Nathan Anderson First Step Internet, LLC nathana at fsr.com
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Carlos Perez Sansay, Inc. +1 858-754-2216 Direct +1 858-754-2211 Support +1-858-754-2200 Main https://calendly.com/cperez-sansay/30min
To my surprise, what I learned over the last few days is that most of the STI-CAs on iconectiv's list will offer you a standalone cert if asked. I also didn't even think to ask Sansay, since as a SBC vendor I just assumed (which, we all know what assuming does...) that they jumped in as a CA as a benefit to their existing customer base and as a way to make their SBC product line more enticing as a "turn-key" solution to potential new customers. I very much appreciate Carlos reaching out to me. To anybody else who might be in a similar position, I highly recommend talking to them. Their cert pricing is extremely competitive, they are helpful and responsive, and their policies are also quite reasonable. Quite a 180 in most respects from some of the other vendors I reached out to. To just fill in a bit more context, my post here was kicked off when we -- whose voice side of the business is still de minimis -- received a quote from one CA for $6,000/yr for a standalone cert. Highway robbery. -- Nathan From: Carlos Perez [mailto:cperez at sansay.com] Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2022 12:29 PM To: Mary Lou Carey Cc: Nathan Anderson; Voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] STI-CA average pricing Sansay provides the standalone CA solution as well if that?s what?s needed. On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 11:06 AM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com<mailto:marylou at backuptelecom.com>> wrote: As far as I know, NEUSTAR is the only CA that will allow you to get a token without using their STIR/SHAKEN services.I know that there are multiple options for the STIR/SHAKEN products so make sure to ask about the various products / price ranges. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2022-06-03 10:22 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:
Starting to collect quotes for SHAKEN cert signing from STI-CAs, and got our first response back.
I also got whiplash at the same time.
Although I didn't have to sign an NDA or agree to any kind of confidentiality in order to get this response, since nobody seemingly wants to publish their pricing, I will (at least for the time being) keep both the quote itself as well as the vendor name close to my chest. But...dang.
Though I'm hoping to be surprised, I'm guessing that there isn't a wide difference in pricing between various STI-CAs. Can people here confirm that I'm likely to mostly hear same-y figures from others? Or if there are options that are significantly cheaper than others, who do y'all recommend that I should be talking to?
Note that I'm only talking about the CA component as a standalone offering, though I'll observe that with very few exceptions, it also doesn't seem like too many vendors are either willing to unbundle the CA service from their overall "end-to-end cloud-based SHAKEN" products, or if they are, they seemingly don't like to publicize it.
To put my response to this pricing in context, we are a relatively small regional broadband provider, and voice is a fraction of a fraction of our business. I'd wager just about everyone else here has a larger voice subscriber base than we do, and most of you probably didn't blink when you saw the price-tag on what it would take to become part of the STIR/SHAKEN ecosystem...just the cost of doing business, right?
We do have effective CLID anti-spoof already & have since the beginning, and as a small provider, we also were *supposed* to have another 12 months to get up to speed on all of this and start signing calls...at least, that was the case until the FCC moved that timetable up in what I can only describe as a Darth Vader-esque "altering [of] the deal". We didn't get that memo in December but only about 3ish months ago, and it's not like I don't have plenty of other things to do, so I'm already coming into this project plenty pissed off...
*sigh* Anyway, I can see that the gate-keepery-ness of this industry is still alive and well. Though I can understand wanting to keep out the riff-raff, you would think that all of the hurdles that one needs to clear in order to get this far -- getting an OCN, on-boarding with the STI-PA, etc. -- would be enough without also throwing yet another huge mandatory & ongoing expense on top of the pile as well.
Sorry. Didn't mean for this to turn into a rant, but...ugh.
-- Nathan Anderson First Step Internet, LLC nathana at fsr.com<mailto:nathana at fsr.com>
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops -- Carlos Perez Sansay, Inc. +1 858-754-2216 Direct +1 858-754-2211 Support +1-858-754-2200 Main https://calendly.com/cperez-sansay/30min
On 2022-06-03 22:22, Nathan Anderson wrote:
To put my response to this pricing in context, we are a relatively small regional broadband provider, and voice is a fraction of a fraction of our business. I'd wager just about everyone else here has a larger voice subscriber base than we do, and most of you probably didn't blink when you saw the price-tag on what it would take to become part of the STIR/SHAKEN ecosystem...just the cost of doing business, right?
The telco I work for is rural, starting 75 years ago with party lines, etc. Telephone is still very important to us, but of course, Internet is where more of the action is these days. We still operate our own telephony switches geographically placed throughout our network and take pride in being able to withstand all sorts of failure scenarios. That is to say, we are still investing a lot of resources to maintain a good telephone experience for our subscribers. And yet, we still fell out of chairs when we saw just how much money various vendors were charging for the various portions of the STIR/SHAKEN implementation. Just the cost of doing business, you ask? I feel that vendors realize that this is something we are being FORCED into, and can charge accordingly.
I would agree with you and I'm sure the big carriers are behind a lot of this because it's just another way to be anti-competitive when it doesn't really fix the entire problem. I'm not sure what type of switch you have, but this only works with VOIP. If you still use your SS7 network then it doesn't apply because no one has figured out how to make it work properly with SS7. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2022-06-06 01:45 PM, Mike Johnston wrote:
On 2022-06-03 22:22, Nathan Anderson wrote:
To put my response to this pricing in context, we are a relatively small regional broadband provider, and voice is a fraction of a fraction of our business. I'd wager just about everyone else here has a larger voice subscriber base than we do, and most of you probably didn't blink when you saw the price-tag on what it would take to become part of the STIR/SHAKEN ecosystem...just the cost of doing business, right?
The telco I work for is rural, starting 75 years ago with party lines, etc. Telephone is still very important to us, but of course, Internet is where more of the action is these days. We still operate our own telephony switches geographically placed throughout our network and take pride in being able to withstand all sorts of failure scenarios. That is to say, we are still investing a lot of resources to maintain a good telephone experience for our subscribers.
And yet, we still fell out of chairs when we saw just how much money various vendors were charging for the various portions of the STIR/SHAKEN implementation.
Just the cost of doing business, you ask? I feel that vendors realize that this is something we are being FORCED into, and can charge accordingly. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 2022-06-06 16:13, Mary Lou Carey wrote:
I'm not sure what type of switch you have, but this only works with VOIP. If you still use your SS7 network then it doesn't apply because no one has figured out how to make it work properly with SS7.
We have Ribbon C15 switches. We have a mix of TDM and SIP. We push to convert trunks to SIP as feasible. Our primary toll trunks are SIP. We still maintain TDM toll trunks to fall back to.
All, Clarification: SHAKEN is not "IP only". ATIS, develops most telecom industry standards. Two TDM SHAKEN Standards have been approved in the last year at ATIS through industry committees (committees that are open to anyone willing to join and participate). Wabash has been successfully SHAKEN authenticating TDM calls for about a year and a half on Ribbon C15 switches; with no special upgrades; using TransNexus as the CA + Call Placement Service. We are a small-medium sized cooperative in rural southern Illinois Like everything else in this world, a few bad people ruin things for masses of good people. No one in our industry, including the big carriers, wanted to reduce our profit or margins. SHAKEN is a necessary evil to weed out bad actors and restore the integrity of our reputations and the PSTN. Once SHAKEN is fully implemented (post 2023') any calls caught falsely attesting on the PSTN will be dealt with at a federal level. Anyone in their right mind and who cares about their own reputation and destiny will simply refuse to do business with, or accept any traffic from, bad actors. In a nutshell, that's how SHAKEN will be a success. Dave -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Mike Johnston Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2022 5:07 PM To: 'Voiceops.org' <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] STI-CA average pricing On 2022-06-06 16:13, Mary Lou Carey wrote:
I'm not sure what type of switch you have, but this only works with VOIP. If you still use your SS7 network then it doesn't apply because no one has figured out how to make it work properly with SS7.
We have Ribbon C15 switches. We have a mix of TDM and SIP. We push to convert trunks to SIP as feasible. Our primary toll trunks are SIP. We still maintain TDM toll trunks to fall back to. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Yuuuuuuup. -- Nathan -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Mike Johnston Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 11:46 AM To: 'Voiceops.org' Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] STI-CA average pricing On 2022-06-03 22:22, Nathan Anderson wrote:
To put my response to this pricing in context, we are a relatively small regional broadband provider, and voice is a fraction of a fraction of our business. I'd wager just about everyone else here has a larger voice subscriber base than we do, and most of you probably didn't blink when you saw the price-tag on what it would take to become part of the STIR/SHAKEN ecosystem...just the cost of doing business, right?
The telco I work for is rural, starting 75 years ago with party lines, etc. Telephone is still very important to us, but of course, Internet is where more of the action is these days. We still operate our own telephony switches geographically placed throughout our network and take pride in being able to withstand all sorts of failure scenarios. That is to say, we are still investing a lot of resources to maintain a good telephone experience for our subscribers. And yet, we still fell out of chairs when we saw just how much money various vendors were charging for the various portions of the STIR/SHAKEN implementation. Just the cost of doing business, you ask? I feel that vendors realize that this is something we are being FORCED into, and can charge accordingly. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (6)
-
cperez＠sansay.com -
dfrigen＠wabash.net -
marylou＠backuptelecom.com -
mjohnston＠wiktel.com -
nathana＠fsr.com -
paul＠timmins.net