Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers... Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble. Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller. How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
I don't experience this with a provider like Level 3, but on our network when one customer has an IP PBX with a SIP Trunk calling another on-net customer with a SIP Trunk, the compatibility lies within those endpoints playing nice with each other or else the call will fail. An example of this is a customer we had as a field trial with a Toshiba CIX SIP Trunk using G.729 and calling customers on the same SIP network with Adtran TA900's. The CIX defaults to 40ms packetization with G.729 and the TA900 only supports up to 30ms packetization. When the CIX customer would call the other on-net numbers using TA900's they experienced one-way audio. We were able to have the customer change the CIX to 20ms. It's a tricky area and I think it's going to take several more years to iron out all the kinks.. There is just too much interop testing to do between endpoints and providers that unless there are standards set in place, I don't see how these sorts of issues can be avoided 100%. On Jul 13, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Hiers, David wrote:
Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers...
Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble.
Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you?re still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller.
How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Interesting.... I suppose that this is how SIP Forum got started, trying to scratch an itch in a protocol. Come to think of it, VoiceOps would be a pretty natural place for this kind of consensus to be developed. David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Holloway [mailto:mh at markholloway.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:58 PM To: Hiers, David Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer? I don't experience this with a provider like Level 3, but on our network when one customer has an IP PBX with a SIP Trunk calling another on-net customer with a SIP Trunk, the compatibility lies within those endpoints playing nice with each other or else the call will fail. An example of this is a customer we had as a field trial with a Toshiba CIX SIP Trunk using G.729 and calling customers on the same SIP network with Adtran TA900's. The CIX defaults to 40ms packetization with G.729 and the TA900 only supports up to 30ms packetization. When the CIX customer would call the other on-net numbers using TA900's they experienced one-way audio. We were able to have the customer change the CIX to 20ms. It's a tricky area and I think it's going to take several more years to iron out all the kinks.. There is just too much interop testing to do between endpoints and providers that unless there are standards set in place, I don't see how these sorts of issues can be avoided 100%. On Jul 13, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Hiers, David wrote: Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers... Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble. Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller. How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
If you are acting as an ITSP for Customer A and Customer B, I would venture to say that it is your responsibility to normalize the media between the two. Either proxying the rtp and transcoding on-net or hairpining to the PSTN would both be acceptable. Not doing so will result in inconsistent and unexpected behavior for your customers, and that never makes anyone happy. Geoff MINA --------------------------------- Chief Technical Officer Connect First Inc. P: 678.905.0671 T: 888.410.3071 F: 678.265.1158 E: <mailto:gmina at connectfirst.com> gmina at connectfirst.com --------------------------------- <http://www.connectfirst.com/> www.connectfirst.com cf_logo From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Mark Holloway Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:58 PM To: Hiers, David Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer? I don't experience this with a provider like Level 3, but on our network when one customer has an IP PBX with a SIP Trunk calling another on-net customer with a SIP Trunk, the compatibility lies within those endpoints playing nice with each other or else the call will fail. An example of this is a customer we had as a field trial with a Toshiba CIX SIP Trunk using G.729 and calling customers on the same SIP network with Adtran TA900's. The CIX defaults to 40ms packetization with G.729 and the TA900 only supports up to 30ms packetization. When the CIX customer would call the other on-net numbers using TA900's they experienced one-way audio. We were able to have the customer change the CIX to 20ms. It's a tricky area and I think it's going to take several more years to iron out all the kinks.. There is just too much interop testing to do between endpoints and providers that unless there are standards set in place, I don't see how these sorts of issues can be avoided 100%. On Jul 13, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Hiers, David wrote: Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers... Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble. Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller. How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 _____ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3001 - Release Date: 07/13/10 06:36:00
Easier said than done. We do our best to ensure this doesn't happen. On Jul 13, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Geoff Mina wrote:
If you are acting as an ITSP for Customer A and Customer B, I would venture to say that it is your responsibility to normalize the media between the two. Either proxying the rtp and transcoding on-net or hairpining to the PSTN would both be acceptable.
Not doing so will result in inconsistent and unexpected behavior for your customers, and that never makes anyone happy.
Geoff MINA --------------------------------- Chief Technical Officer Connect First Inc. P: 678.905.0671 T: 888.410.3071 F: 678.265.1158 E: gmina at connectfirst.com --------------------------------- www.connectfirst.com
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From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Mark Holloway Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:58 PM To: Hiers, David Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer?
I don't experience this with a provider like Level 3, but on our network when one customer has an IP PBX with a SIP Trunk calling another on-net customer with a SIP Trunk, the compatibility lies within those endpoints playing nice with each other or else the call will fail. An example of this is a customer we had as a field trial with a Toshiba CIX SIP Trunk using G.729 and calling customers on the same SIP network with Adtran TA900's. The CIX defaults to 40ms packetization with G.729 and the TA900 only supports up to 30ms packetization. When the CIX customer would call the other on-net numbers using TA900's they experienced one-way audio. We were able to have the customer change the CIX to 20ms. It's a tricky area and I think it's going to take several more years to iron out all the kinks.. There is just too much interop testing to do between endpoints and providers that unless there are standards set in place, I don't see how these sorts of issues can be avoided 100%.
On Jul 13, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Hiers, David wrote:
Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers...
Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble.
Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you?re still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller.
How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3001 - Release Date: 07/13/10 06:36:00
If any of my current suppliers did this, I'd scream bloody murder until they fixed it or made it go away. If a provider lets people choose their own settings, I fully expect them to transcode it for us. Anything less is a bug. -Paul
Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers...
Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble.
Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller.
How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Considering that, based on past conversations with my L3 SE, I believe depending on the network you are on L3 doesn't necessarily have the ability to trap "on network" calls as such and lets them go to PSTN and hairpin back, I wouldn't consider this to be a big issue but it means you will find common ground there. I think their Vector network is a bit more intelligent, however since you never converse directly with another customer (look at the traffic you send L3, they hold all media), I cant imagine them not just routing this through a media server and trans-coding between the disparate parties. On Tue, 2010-07-13 at 15:38 -0500, Hiers, David wrote:
Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers...
Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble.
Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you?re still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller.
How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
______________________________________________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I've seen this happen with resellers that only use a proxy between their customers (Bandwidth.com). In that case all transport, codec, and caller ID parameters must be compatible (Bandwidth won't do anything about them). With Level(3) Vector they hold media and can make codecs compatible. However, one problem we have found is Caller ID presentation. When going to a peer Level(3) will not do a dip and set the from name, they depend on the originating network to set the CID appropriately or they depend on the terminating network to do a dip. We experienced problems with this once Comcast starting using Level(3) vector. CID name presentation would be inconsistent on calls to Comcast. On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Hiers, David <David_Hiers at adp.com> wrote:
Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers...
Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3.? Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever).? Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings.? For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only.? L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble.
Everything is good until they try to call each other.? Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid.? Sure, you?re still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller.
How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kristian Kielhofner http://www.astlinux.org http://blog.krisk.org http://www.star2star.com http://www.submityoursip.com http://www.voalte.com
On 07/13/2010 05:35 PM, Kristian Kielhofner wrote:
I've seen this happen with resellers that only use a proxy between their customers (Bandwidth.com). In that case all transport, codec, and caller ID parameters must be compatible (Bandwidth won't do anything about them).
It's even worse if the end-users behind the ITSP's proxy are behind NAT. You can do signaling-level NAT fixups in a proxy, but without relaying media, you rely on the upstream carrier's edge equipment to do draft-comedia style NAT traversal on the media, whereupon the true UDP source port of the RTP is discovered prior to sending RTP to the end-user leg (on the assumption of symmetric RTP), instead of using the UDP port declared in the SDP body coming from the end-user. Bandwidth.com's edge equipment does not do such fixups, so it is entirely incumbent upon the ITSP to deal with this situation.
With Level(3) Vector they hold media and can make codecs compatible. However, one problem we have found is Caller ID presentation. When going to a peer Level(3) will not do a dip and set the from name, they depend on the originating network to set the CID appropriately or they depend on the terminating network to do a dip.
... in E.164, no less. -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 1170 Peachtree Street 12th Floor, Suite 1200 Atlanta, GA 30309 Tel: +1-678-954-0670 Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/
If you want to run a test to see what's really happening, reply off-list for details. David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Hiers, David Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:39 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer? Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers... Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble. Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller. How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
I've got a level3 phone set up for g729 only, it won't run g711. I'll provide the number off-list. If you want to see how things work, fire up a 711-only phone and call this 729-only phone. David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 -----Original Message----- From: Hiers, David Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:04 PM To: Hiers, David; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: RE: The peer of my peer is my peer? If you want to run a test to see what's really happening, reply off-list for details. David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Hiers, David Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:39 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer? Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers... Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble. Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller. How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
Followup - Just seeing this with one customer now... Our settings on Viper don't allow L3 to transcode L3 Cust to L3 Cust ....However, I can get it to work on Vector. Any idea whats the best way ifpossible to hairpin the calls back to PSTN for this kind of scenario on Broadsoft? From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Hiers, David Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:39 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer? Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers... Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble. Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller. How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
So... one of the parties is a BW subscriber on your system? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 -----Original Message----- From: Ujjval Karihaloo [mailto:ujjval at simplesignal.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:27 AM To: Hiers, David; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: RE: The peer of my peer is my peer? Followup - Just seeing this with one customer now... Our settings on Viper don't allow L3 to transcode L3 Cust to L3 Cust ....However, I can get it to work on Vector. Any idea whats the best way ifpossible to hairpin the calls back to PSTN for this kind of scenario on Broadsoft? From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Hiers, David Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:39 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer? Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers... Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble. Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller. How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
These are both SIP trunks..on our BW platforms - call never goes out to PSTN Cust 1 PBX is G729 only, Cust 2 PBX is G711 only... Ujjval Karihaloo VP Voice Engineering IP Phone: +13032428610 E-Fax: +17202391690 SimpleSignal Inc. 88 Inverness Circle East Suite K105 Englewood, CO? 80112 -----Original Message----- From: Hiers, David [mailto:David_Hiers at adp.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:17 PM To: Ujjval Karihaloo; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: RE: The peer of my peer is my peer? So... one of the parties is a BW subscriber on your system? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 -----Original Message----- From: Ujjval Karihaloo [mailto:ujjval at simplesignal.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:27 AM To: Hiers, David; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: RE: The peer of my peer is my peer? Followup - Just seeing this with one customer now... Our settings on Viper don't allow L3 to transcode L3 Cust to L3 Cust ....However, I can get it to work on Vector. Any idea whats the best way ifpossible to hairpin the calls back to PSTN for this kind of scenario on Broadsoft? From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Hiers, David Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:39 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer? Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers... Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble. Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller. How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer? David Hiers CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277 ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
For what it's worth, BT's IP Exchange (VoIP interconnect) platform comes with a caveat in its documentation that incompatible peers will not be able to call each other, and suggests that everyone offer G.711(A) (in our case, as we're not in the USA) as a lowest common denominator. It may well be that L3 ought to be doing something similar. --Dave
These are both SIP trunks..on our BW platforms - call never goes out to PSTN
Cust 1 PBX is G729 only, Cust 2 PBX is G711 only...
Ujjval Karihaloo VP Voice Engineering IP Phone: +13032428610 E-Fax: +17202391690
SimpleSignal Inc. 88 Inverness Circle East Suite K105 Englewood, CO 80112
-----Original Message----- From: Hiers, David [mailto:David_Hiers at adp.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:17 PM To: Ujjval Karihaloo; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: RE: The peer of my peer is my peer?
So... one of the parties is a BW subscriber on your system?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
-----Original Message----- From: Ujjval Karihaloo [mailto:ujjval at simplesignal.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:27 AM To: Hiers, David; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: RE: The peer of my peer is my peer?
Followup -
Just seeing this with one customer now...
Our settings on Viper don't allow L3 to transcode L3 Cust to L3 Cust ....However, I can get it to work on Vector.
Any idea whats the best way ifpossible to hairpin the calls back to PSTN for this kind of scenario on Broadsoft?
From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Hiers, David Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:39 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer?
Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers...
Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble.
Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller.
How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
________________________________
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- David Knell, Director, 3C Limited T: +44 20 3298 2000 E: dave at 3c.co.uk W: http://www.3c.co.uk
Level 3 does transcode on vector , so they will ask u to migrate from viper to vector...which is another animal.. We are in process of now On Aug 10, 2010, at 1:27 PM, "David Knell" <dave at 3c.co.uk> wrote:
For what it's worth, BT's IP Exchange (VoIP interconnect) platform comes with a caveat in its documentation that incompatible peers will not be able to call each other, and suggests that everyone offer G.711(A) (in our case, as we're not in the USA) as a lowest common denominator.
It may well be that L3 ought to be doing something similar.
--Dave
These are both SIP trunks..on our BW platforms - call never goes out to PSTN
Cust 1 PBX is G729 only, Cust 2 PBX is G711 only...
Ujjval Karihaloo VP Voice Engineering IP Phone: +13032428610 E-Fax: +17202391690
SimpleSignal Inc. 88 Inverness Circle East Suite K105 Englewood, CO 80112
-----Original Message----- From: Hiers, David [mailto:David_Hiers at adp.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:17 PM To: Ujjval Karihaloo; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: RE: The peer of my peer is my peer?
So... one of the parties is a BW subscriber on your system?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
-----Original Message----- From: Ujjval Karihaloo [mailto:ujjval at simplesignal.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:27 AM To: Hiers, David; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: RE: The peer of my peer is my peer?
Followup -
Just seeing this with one customer now...
Our settings on Viper don't allow L3 to transcode L3 Cust to L3 Cust ....However, I can get it to work on Vector.
Any idea whats the best way ifpossible to hairpin the calls back to PSTN for this kind of scenario on Broadsoft?
From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Hiers, David Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:39 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] The peer of my peer is my peer?
Every so often this issue comes up, and I want to get a read on it from other VOIP resellers...
Consider a couple of unrelated VOIP resellers that peer with a carrier like L3. Both can interop with L3 using strict SIP and RTP settings (max forwards, g729 only, 10ms ptime, whatever). Both are free to select mutually incompatible settings. For instance, reseller A can chose 729 only, and reseller B can choose 711 only. L3 will connect both to the PSTN without any trouble.
Everything is good until they try to call each other. Then the mutually incompatible settings will break calls or render predicted usage patterns invalid. Sure, you're still signaling to a L3 SIP server, but some the information in the SIP/SDP packets that you receive is controlled by the other reseller.
How often do you see problems related to the peer of your peer?
David Hiers
CCIE (R/S, V), CISSP ADP Dealer Services 2525 SW 1st Ave. Suite 300W Portland, OR 97201 o: 503-205-4467 f: 503-402-3277
________________________________
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- David Knell, Director, 3C Limited T: +44 20 3298 2000 E: dave at 3c.co.uk W: http://www.3c.co.uk
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (9)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
anorexicpoodle＠gmail.com -
dave＠3c.co.uk -
David_Hiers＠adp.com -
gmina＠connectfirst.com -
kristian.kielhofner＠gmail.com -
mh＠markholloway.com -
paul＠timmins.net -
ujjval＠simplesignal.com