We were a VocalData (aka Tekelec T6k, aka Genband M6, aka Broadsoft M6) shop that migrated to Broadworks. We moved from Broadworks to Cisco PaaS (Broadworks) 4 years ago. I just purchased Netsapiens with their fully managed solution and will be migrating customers away from Cisco PaaS to Netsapiens. IMHO Cisco has ignored Broadworks since they purchased it, feature set is falling behind. We are 100% SIP in/out with 0 TDM anywhere in the network. We?ve had customers we have migrated 3 times already, time to migrate them a 4th (last??) time. From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> on behalf of Peter Rad <peter at 4isps.com> Date: Friday, December 17, 2021 at 3:25 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Vendor ProsCons CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Crocker. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Metaswitch will soon be running on Azure for Operators Ribbon Cisco/BSFT or talk to Averistar about running BroadWorks for you Alianza netsapiens (now CXDO) 2600Hz (Kazoo) cloudya by NFON Biscom WLC and a few smaller others On 12/17/2021 2:15 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: We've been running Metaswitch for 15 years and are looking to refresh what we have. Who else operates at that tier? I'm talking to Ribbon. I'm hesitant to talk to to Broadsoft because they're part of Cisco, but if I should, I should... Obviously, there are rather limited venues to gain third-party feedback on the platforms, so I figured I'd ask here. Thanks. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

We have a mix of TDM and SIP for PSTN connectivity. I heard there were issues with Netsapiens servicing customers in different states and/or LATAs within a single platform. Not sure about your deployment but do you know if that's still the case? __________________________________ Charles Boening Network Manager 800-858-2399 | Office charlieb at calore.net<mailto:charlieb at calore.net> www.cot.net<http://www.cot.net/> | Find us on Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cal-Ore/205066716227707> __________________________________ Cal-Ore | Local. Trusted. Professional. From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Matthew Crocker Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 12:49 PM To: Peter Rad <peter at 4isps.com>; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Vendor Pros\Cons EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or sharing sensitive information. We were a VocalData (aka Tekelec T6k, aka Genband M6, aka Broadsoft M6) shop that migrated to Broadworks. We moved from Broadworks to Cisco PaaS (Broadworks) 4 years ago. I just purchased Netsapiens with their fully managed solution and will be migrating customers away from Cisco PaaS to Netsapiens. IMHO Cisco has ignored Broadworks since they purchased it, feature set is falling behind. We are 100% SIP in/out with 0 TDM anywhere in the network. We've had customers we have migrated 3 times already, time to migrate them a 4th (last??) time. From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org>> on behalf of Peter Rad <peter at 4isps.com<mailto:peter at 4isps.com>> Date: Friday, December 17, 2021 at 3:25 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> <voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Vendor ProsCons CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Crocker. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Metaswitch will soon be running on Azure for Operators Ribbon Cisco/BSFT or talk to Averistar about running BroadWorks for you Alianza netsapiens (now CXDO) 2600Hz (Kazoo) cloudya by NFON Biscom WLC and a few smaller others On 12/17/2021 2:15 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: We've been running Metaswitch for 15 years and are looking to refresh what we have. Who else operates at that tier? I'm talking to Ribbon. I'm hesitant to talk to to Broadsoft because they're part of Cisco, but if I should, I should... Obviously, there are rather limited venues to gain third-party feedback on the platforms, so I figured I'd ask here. Thanks. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ics-il.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ccharlieb%40calore.net%7Cd8e30133c04b4096c1b408d9c19f8622%7C762346cf7166481d8dcf852f7a247b31%7C1%7C0%7C637753713222072847%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=PNrHQ0scuVRnUqleIin4xuHZo0GFwe23NC%2FLGcnw0vk%3D&reserved=0> Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.midwest-ix.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ccharlieb%40calore.net%7Cd8e30133c04b4096c1b408d9c19f8622%7C762346cf7166481d8dcf852f7a247b31%7C1%7C0%7C637753713222072847%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BWNZAlRpiz32%2FHKap%2Fekm9IunC2xNyV34TY57aRCLBY%3D&reserved=0> _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpuck.nether.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fvoiceops&data=04%7C01%7Ccharlieb%40calore.net%7Cd8e30133c04b4096c1b408d9c19f8622%7C762346cf7166481d8dcf852f7a247b31%7C1%7C0%7C637753713222072847%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Naj7%2FGdfRRkbN%2BYIoHZ764VtdXPo9%2FCdT8wBuIjcfRk%3D&reserved=0>

I have some experience with Meta and quite a bit with Ribbon (back to the Nortel days). I'm not sure exactly what platform you're considering but I'm guessing the C15 if you're looking in the carrier space. From what I have seen, Meta seems to get new features, etc. more quickly then Ribbon especially in the carrier market space. We greatly prefer Ribbon's tech support over Meta. Both have very different user interfaces. The C15/20 series is still pretty much all CLI, despite the fact that they've been saying they've had a GUI for years (awful, awful java-based thing). Shawn On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 10:20 PM Daniel White <dwhite at atheral.com> wrote:

@Mike I'm always open to chat re: Netsapiens but as (I think) you know we are a pure SIP environment. I think every vendor is going to have some "the grass is always greener on the other side" but we have a few engineers at ISPs with background on Meta that have said a lot of positive things about Netsapiens. I have my days where I want to walk away from them too.

@Charles we are providing service to ISPs in at least 30 states. Obviously the platform has matured quite a bit over the years but depending on the age of that concern it might have been an architecture issue (HA vs. Geo)

[image: photograph] Daniel White Co-Founder phone: +1 (702) 470-2770 direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> December 17, 2021 at 12:15 We've been running Metaswitch for 15 years and are looking to refresh what we have.

Who else operates at that tier? I'm talking to Ribbon. I'm hesitant to talk to to Broadsoft because they're part of Cisco, but if I should, I should...

Obviously, there are rather limited venues to gain third-party feedback on the platforms, so I figured I'd ask here.

Thanks.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com

_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

That sounds terrible. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Johnston" <mjohnston at wiktel.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 5:48:31 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Vendor Pros\Cons On 2021-12-23 08:08, Shawn L wrote:

The C15/20 series is still pretty much all CLI, despite the fact that they've been saying they've had a GUI for years (awful, awful java-based thing).

The C15's CLI is not very intuitive, being a living relic of its DMS heritage. There are different overlays you need to load to get into different administration areas of the C15. I believe this comes from the era when RAM was limited and only one overlay/program could be loaded from the tape drive at a time. Much of that same paradigm still exists in the C15's current CLI. The CLI is accessible via serial and telnet, with no sign of ever being upgraded to use SSH. There is no "up arrow" support. That is, you can not press the up arrow key to get the previous command. There is also no left/right arrow key support to assist you in modifying your current command. Depending on your terminal settings, you may not have backspace support either. There is no API, and it is very tedious to automate with expect scripts via the CLI. Almost everything is in 3 or 4 character long keywords. You will eventually memorize many of them (CNAM, CND, CNB, CFW, etc), but you will forever be looking up many of these abbreviations in the manual (what is the difference between TR TTYP TERL, TRAL, TRAO, and TRAP? How do these interact with the THGP or STN PICL setting?). As for the GUI, as Shawn said, it is Java based. As such, just assume it doesn't exist. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

On Dec 23, 2021, at 18:52, Jeff Brower <jbrower at signalogic.com> wrote:

Mike-

...

I believe this comes from the era when RAM was limited and only one overlay/program could be loaded from the tape drive at a time

"tape drive" ... that's not an era, that's an epoch :-)

Not that long ago. QIC drives were standard, with optional harddrive, up until about twenty years ago with the 500 series generic & hardware... I guess it has been that long. I think the limitation was more of contention. Maintenance overlays are limited to only one, but DMO (provisioning) overlays could mostly be accessed simultaneously, iirc. The original DMS-10 was slightly different and earlier than the standard DMS (DMS100 family), with a lot of stuff a bit cruder.

I completely agree. The support for the C15 is some of the best we get from all our vendors. They?re pretty much the only vendor where an actual engineer answers the support line when you call in - ie no voicemail tree unless all of them are currently on the phone. About the only thing they won?t help you with is major translation changes (that?s engineering services). We don?t use Meta so I have no first hand knowledge of their support, but I?ve heard horror stories from partners that do. I do wish the c15 had a better built-in SBC. The need to purchase an external one of you need to do tricky stuff (transcoding dtmf digits. Grr) is kind of a pain. But on the other hand I guess it?s one less thing to worry about if you don?t need it. On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 2:43 PM Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote:

I feel I should also mention that even though the C15's CLI is a bit...old school, the platform is quite robust. Especially if you are using SIP, there are very few failure modes that would cause a service impacting event. Everything is redundant and can generally shift the call flows around failing hardware on the fly. We've performed major software upgrades of the C15s while holding an uninterrupted SIP phone call during the entire upgrade. From the day it's powered on, until the day it is replaced with something else, you can expect the C15s to be constantly operational (except for that time a tech dropped a wrench across the battery terminals).

They also have great TDM support, but some hardware failures, of course, will take down in-progress TDM calls. That is, if the call is on a T1 that is connected to a port module that just died, then that call will need to be re-established on a different T1 that is a port module that is still working. I feel that this sort of concern is nothing new to people who are used to working with TDM, though.

The C15 support from Ribbon is amazing. The technicians are very friendly, very patient, very accommodating, and always very understanding of what it is you are trying to accomplish. I've had a couple times where I've had a feature request (or maybe you could argue a bug/non-RFC compliant behavior), and they fixed the issue. However, for one of them, that fix took quite a while. But, they want changes to their code to be very thoughtful and well tested. This keeps their platform stable, very stable (see my first paragraph).

If you want to have a Hosted PBX offering, I do not feel the C15 is good fit for that. We use FreeSWITCH for Hosted PBX, and link each virtual customer to the C15 with a SIP trunk (the C15 calls it a SIP PRI). _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops