One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State. They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk. 911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives. I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue. The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct. Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them. The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill. Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic. Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers? Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage? Thanks, -A
Get a small SIP trunk from another provider. Order 1 DID from that provider for each physical office location. Register appropriate 911 information for the DID. Configure FreePBX to rewrite the CallerID to the appropriate DID for outbound 911 calls. You may be able to get new DIDs from Comcast for the sole purpose of 911 and configure outbound 911 calls to those DIDs. From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> on behalf of Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 1:41 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Crocker. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State. They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk. 911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives. I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue. The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct. Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them. The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill. Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic. Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers? Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage? Thanks, -A
Sounds like this client is large enough to have a legal person/team on call or on staff? They should write a letter putting the carrier on notice that they are in violation of the law, and in violation of their contract, and they have X days to rectify or the contract is void. You have to give one point to Comcast; they will consistently prove that they are the worst telecom/ISP on the planet. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 11:41 AM Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps < voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
BulkVS offers E911 service to numbers not native to them. So you can register your E911 DIDs for each office address and just send your 911 traffic to them. They also support the text/email notification needed for when someone in the office dials 911. I think they are supporting Z axis geo data now too for coordinates. I'd go this route if you have less than $100 of spend in 911 especially with no contract required PAYG. If you have more, look at Intrado or Bandwidth for their solutions. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 11:04 AM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like this client is large enough to have a legal person/team on call or on staff? They should write a letter putting the carrier on notice that they are in violation of the law, and in violation of their contract, and they have X days to rectify or the contract is void.
You have to give one point to Comcast; they will consistently prove that they are the worst telecom/ISP on the planet.
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 11:41 AM Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps < voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
This: Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers? There are a number of VoIP 911 providers who handle and route calls to the correct PSAP based either on the registered address or based on information collected from the called on the phone. We use Northern911 but there are many others. We have this relationship as a TSP, but also have several clients (roadside assistance, security companies, utilities) who have a direct relationship with N911. Dialplan to route 911 calls to the provider and bypass Comcast will fix your headache. For not much $. Good luck Ivan On Tue., Jan. 4, 2022, 1:36 p.m. Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps, < voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.
Since this involves 911 service, I think it is past time to get the lawyers involved. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 10:41 AM Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps < voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers. On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it.? In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually?exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly.? In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy"?solution?is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games.? Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months.? Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number?? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it. Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them. Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written. No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed) After talking with Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service. None of our offices have valid 911 contact info. They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath. It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client. They shouldn't be re-writing anything. They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN. I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider. Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;) -A On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers.
On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing listVoiceOps at voiceops.orghttps://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
why not move that SIP trunk elsewhere? Like Intelepeer or Vonage or RNG or Sangoma or anyone who would handle the E911? On 1/4/2022 7:07 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it.
Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them.
Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written.
No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed)
After talking with?Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service.? None of our offices have valid 911 contact info.
They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath.
It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client.? They shouldn't be re-writing anything.? They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN.? I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider.? Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;)
-A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers.
On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it.? In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually?exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly.? In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy"?solution?is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games.? Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months.? Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number?? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
From my first message: Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
They're paying just over $2k/mo for service and have ~18 months left on the contract. Apparently Comcast gives a slight discount from the normal monthly cost if you terminate early, but it's not much. -A On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 7:38 PM Peter Rad <peter at 4isps.com> wrote:
why not move that SIP trunk elsewhere? Like Intelepeer or Vonage or RNG or Sangoma or anyone who would handle the E911?
On 1/4/2022 7:07 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it.
Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them.
Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written.
No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed)
After talking with Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service. None of our offices have valid 911 contact info.
They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath.
It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client. They shouldn't be re-writing anything. They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN. I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider. Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;)
-A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers.
On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing listVoiceOps at voiceops.orghttps://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing listVoiceOps at voiceops.orghttps://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Escalate to the PUC and ETSBs. Unfortunately, with companies like that, honey doesn't work. You need vinegar. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> To: "Paul Timmins" <paul at timmins.net> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 6:07:52 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls? When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it. Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them. Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written. No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed) After talking with Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service. None of our offices have valid 911 contact info. They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath. It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client. They shouldn't be re-writing anything. They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN. I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider. Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;) -A On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins < paul at timmins.net > wrote: I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers. On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote: <blockquote> One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State. They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk. 911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives. I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue. The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct. Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them. The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill. Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic. Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers? Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage? Thanks, -A _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops </blockquote> _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I was just going to say the same thing. If you give Comcast or any carrier a chance to fix it and they can't/won't/don't, then you have to escalate it above their heads. The 911 network has always operated separately from the PSTN world for a reason. That's because misroutes can result in people dying! Carriers can get in HUGE trouble if they don't address routing issues immediately and VOIP carriers can also get in trouble if they don't allow the customer a method of updating their location themselves. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2022-01-05 09:08 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Escalate to the PUC and ETSBs.
Unfortunately, with companies like that, honey doesn't work. You need vinegar.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
From: "Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> To: "Paul Timmins" <paul at timmins.net> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 6:07:52 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls?
When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it.
Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them.
Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written.
No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed)
After talking with Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service. None of our offices have valid 911 contact info.
They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath.
It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client. They shouldn't be re-writing anything. They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN. I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider. Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;)
-A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers.
On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I filed a complaint with the FCC about a year ago. The FCC reached out to Comcast and Comcast reached back out to me. Their response was that we would basically have to purchase ~200 numbers (one for each extension on our system), set our outbound 911 caller ID to those numbers, and then provide Comcast with a list of mappings between phone numbers and addresses. It would have added a huge tracking burden for IT as well as increased our bill by about $2,500 over the contract term. It's all moot now as BulkVS cost less than $50 to set up, we've already had one successful 911 call from an office that was continually misrouted by Comcast, and the contract is up "soon". -A On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:37 PM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I was just going to say the same thing. If you give Comcast or any carrier a chance to fix it and they can't/won't/don't, then you have to escalate it above their heads.
The 911 network has always operated separately from the PSTN world for a reason. That's because misroutes can result in people dying! Carriers can get in HUGE trouble if they don't address routing issues immediately and VOIP carriers can also get in trouble if they don't allow the customer a method of updating their location themselves.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2022-01-05 09:08 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Escalate to the PUC and ETSBs.
Unfortunately, with companies like that, honey doesn't work. You need vinegar.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
From: "Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> To: "Paul Timmins" <paul at timmins.net> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 6:07:52 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls?
When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it.
Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them.
Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written.
No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed)
After talking with Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service. None of our offices have valid 911 contact info.
They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath.
It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client. They shouldn't be re-writing anything. They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN. I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider. Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;)
-A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers.
On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
You shouldn't have needed a number for each extension. You can just associate each extension with a dedicated TN for that particular building. Any call that comes from that building would be routed to the same PSAP. You'd just want to provide the main desk in each building with the physical location of each TN within the building so when help arrives they know where to go. What you're describing is actually 2 different issues. The contract being up may fix the problem of getting the call to the correct PSAP, but it may not fix your address problem. If the location is routed to the right PSAP but identifies the wrong building in that PSAP area it's still an issue. My guess would be that Comcast had problems getting your addresses to validate in the ALI database so they listed the address associated with your SIP trunks instead because the system took that. What clients may not be aware of is that the address in the ALI database (used to identify locations for 911) doesn't always match the address that the customer was given by USPS. The ALI database gets its address options from the MSAG database. The MSAG uses whatever the original carrier assigned. If the customer writes their address as 123 Main Street, but the MSAG lists it as 123 Main St, the address won't validate. It has to match EXACTLY! There are also many instances where the street name or abbreviation for the city may be different. For example, in my area you can take 50 mile stretch of road that goes from Columbia TN all the way up to Nashville. In Columbia they call it Nashville Highway. In Spring Hill they call it Main Street. In Franklin they call it Columbia Ave, and in Nashville they call it Highway 31. Just because the Post Office assigned someone's address as Nashville Highway doesn't mean the phone company used the same address. They may have listed it as Nashville Highway /Columbia Ave and if you don't type it exactly that way, your address won't validate. If your address doesn't validate, then you get fined! So even though carriers are supposed to give their customers a way to update their address, they don't want to give them direct access because the address the customer thinks they have may not be the address in the ALI database. Its crazy that anyone gets the service they need when something as simple as an address is SO messed up! MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2022-01-08 05:11 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote:
I filed a complaint with the FCC about a year ago. The FCC reached out to Comcast and Comcast reached back out to me. Their response was that we would basically have to purchase ~200 numbers (one for each extension on our system), set our outbound 911 caller ID to those numbers, and then provide Comcast with a list of mappings between phone numbers and addresses. It would have added a huge tracking burden for IT as well as increased our bill by about $2,500 over the contract term.
It's all moot now as BulkVS cost less than $50 to set up, we've already had one successful 911 call from an office that was continually misrouted by Comcast, and the contract is up "soon".
-A
On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:37 PM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I was just going to say the same thing. If you give Comcast or any carrier a chance to fix it and they can't/won't/don't, then you have to escalate it above their heads.
The 911 network has always operated separately from the PSTN world for a reason. That's because misroutes can result in people dying! Carriers can get in HUGE trouble if they don't address routing issues immediately and VOIP carriers can also get in trouble if they don't allow the customer a method of updating their location themselves.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2022-01-05 09:08 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Escalate to the PUC and ETSBs.
Unfortunately, with companies like that, honey doesn't work. You need vinegar.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
From: "Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> To: "Paul Timmins" <paul at timmins.net> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 6:07:52 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls?
When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it.
Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them.
Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written.
No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed)
After talking with Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service. None of our offices have valid 911 contact info.
They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath.
It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client. They shouldn't be re-writing anything. They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN. I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider. Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;)
-A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers.
On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
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_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 5:21 PM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
You shouldn't have needed a number for each extension. You can just associate each extension with a dedicated TN for that particular building. Any call that comes from that building would be routed to the same PSAP. You'd just want to provide the main desk in each building with the physical location of each TN within the building so when help arrives they know where to go.
Yup. That was Comcast's response to the FCC though.
What you're describing is actually 2 different issues. The contract being up may fix the problem of getting the call to the correct PSAP, but it may not fix your address problem. If the location is routed to the right PSAP but identifies the wrong building in that PSAP area it's still an issue. My guess would be that Comcast had problems getting your addresses to validate in the ALI database so they listed the address associated with your SIP trunks instead because the system took that. What clients may not be aware of is that the address in the ALI database (used to identify locations for 911) doesn't always match the address that the customer was given by USPS.
I have a portal that I use for tracking my clients addresses. It has a 'street number' field, 'street name', and 'additional address info' field (along with city, state, zip). They basically get concatenated together to come up with the address. Those fields also generate my e911 list that I hand to Comcast. I used the same fields to programatically create the BulkVS 911 list. BulkVS had zero problems validating every single address I threw at it. ;) -A
Are you potentially underestimating what you're required to do for 911? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> To: "Mary Lou Carey" <marylou at backuptelecom.com> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:11:36 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls? I filed a complaint with the FCC about a year ago. The FCC reached out to Comcast and Comcast reached back out to me. Their response was that we would basically have to purchase ~200 numbers (one for each extension on our system), set our outbound 911 caller ID to those numbers, and then provide Comcast with a list of mappings between phone numbers and addresses. It would have added a huge tracking burden for IT as well as increased our bill by about $2,500 over the contract term. It's all moot now as BulkVS cost less than $50 to set up, we've already had one successful 911 call from an office that was continually misrouted by Comcast, and the contract is up "soon". -A On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:37 PM Mary Lou Carey < marylou at backuptelecom.com > wrote: I was just going to say the same thing. If you give Comcast or any carrier a chance to fix it and they can't/won't/don't, then you have to escalate it above their heads. The 911 network has always operated separately from the PSTN world for a reason. That's because misroutes can result in people dying! Carriers can get in HUGE trouble if they don't address routing issues immediately and VOIP carriers can also get in trouble if they don't allow the customer a method of updating their location themselves. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2022-01-05 09:08 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Escalate to the PUC and ETSBs.
Unfortunately, with companies like that, honey doesn't work. You need vinegar.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
From: "Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps" < voiceops at voiceops.org > To: "Paul Timmins" < paul at timmins.net > Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 6:07:52 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls?
When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it.
Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them.
Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written.
No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed)
After talking with Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service. None of our offices have valid 911 contact info.
They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath.
It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client. They shouldn't be re-writing anything. They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN. I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider. Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;)
-A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins < paul at timmins.net > wrote:
I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers.
On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
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In my case, I doubt it. I'm not a phone company or VoIP provider. I was simply called in to help them with their existing VoIP server (among other things). -A On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 7:47 AM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
Are you potentially underestimating what you're required to do for 911?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------ *From: *"Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> *To: *"Mary Lou Carey" <marylou at backuptelecom.com> *Cc: *voiceops at voiceops.org *Sent: *Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:11:36 PM *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls?
I filed a complaint with the FCC about a year ago. The FCC reached out to Comcast and Comcast reached back out to me. Their response was that we would basically have to purchase ~200 numbers (one for each extension on our system), set our outbound 911 caller ID to those numbers, and then provide Comcast with a list of mappings between phone numbers and addresses. It would have added a huge tracking burden for IT as well as increased our bill by about $2,500 over the contract term.
It's all moot now as BulkVS cost less than $50 to set up, we've already had one successful 911 call from an office that was continually misrouted by Comcast, and the contract is up "soon".
-A
On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:37 PM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I was just going to say the same thing. If you give Comcast or any carrier a chance to fix it and they can't/won't/don't, then you have to escalate it above their heads.
The 911 network has always operated separately from the PSTN world for a reason. That's because misroutes can result in people dying! Carriers can get in HUGE trouble if they don't address routing issues immediately and VOIP carriers can also get in trouble if they don't allow the customer a method of updating their location themselves.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2022-01-05 09:08 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Escalate to the PUC and ETSBs.
Unfortunately, with companies like that, honey doesn't work. You need vinegar.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
From: "Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> To: "Paul Timmins" <paul at timmins.net> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 6:07:52 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Misrouting 911 Calls?
When I handed Comcast a list of phone numbers years ago, they said there would be no problem porting them over or using them. That was it.
Then after the service was installed, someone mentioned "a few of the numbers will be RCF'd", but we wouldn't have a problem using them.
Then 3 months into using the service (after our cancellation period expired and we were locked-in), we suddenly started having problems with the RCF'd numbers being re-written.
No less than 30 calls to Comcast over the years has resulted in widely different responses including: * Ok, we just changed an option in the AdTran to allow you to specify your own caller ID, everything should work now (it doesn't) * Give us a list of phone numbers and associated addresses so we can update our e911 information (they respond with "done!", not "we can't set e911 for phone number xxx-yyy-zzzz) * I'm going to escalate this (followed by nothing happening and the case gets magically closed)
After talking with Comcast this morning, I had a rep send me what they had listed for addresses associated with phone numbers...and unsurprisingly found that they had reset everything to the address of our SIP trunk service. None of our offices have valid 911 contact info.
They're allegedly in the middle of updating the list again, but I'm not holding my breath.
It's Comcast's job to provide phone service and 911 routing for this client. They shouldn't be re-writing anything. They weren't in the beginning, but I'm guessing it has to do with STIR/SHAKEN. I'm vaguely familiar with it, but I'm not a telco or a phone service provider. Just someone they hired to clean up their FreePBX phone mess. ;)
-A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I'm going to be the unpopular one here, and point out that Comcast is not really responsible to route 911 calls for you when you use numbers that they don't provide. For the cost of an hour of an attorney's time, you could just set up trunking to basically anyone else to handle those offnet/off circuit numbers and the 911 routing for those numbers.
On 1/4/22 1:30 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
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Thanks to everyone who responded both on and off-list. I think I'm going to go with a 3rd-party provider for routing 911 calls and just count down the months until they can ditch Comcast. -A On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 10:30 AM Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
Thanks again everyone. I ended up going with bulkvs.com. They answered the phone when I called, didn't have voicemail saying they were out for Christmas and would be back 2 days ago, their API made it pretty simple to load ~270 phone numbers in a matter of minutes, and the '922' test number allowed offices to run around and verify their address info was correct. Comcast finally responded to the issue and corrected our info for the 900th time. The snippet of their response I found annoying was: "if any changes are made to the account it will automatically revert back to the original name of --redacted--, which is the name the SIP account was set up under". In my experience, any change to the account doesn't just affect the "name", it also resets all the PSAP information back to the location of their SIP/EDI install. Anyways, that won't be a problem in ~18 months when we ditch their incompetent service. -A On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 3:58 PM Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
Thanks to everyone who responded both on and off-list. I think I'm going to go with a 3rd-party provider for routing 911 calls and just count down the months until they can ditch Comcast.
-A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 10:30 AM Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
One of my clients has a large SIP trunk with Comcast based out of Washington State.
They have all their offices across Oregon and Washington hooked into a FreePBX phone server that is attached to the Comcast SIP trunk.
911 calls *constantly* get misrouted to the local PSAP where the SIP trunk lives.
I must have called Comcast 30 times over the last few years to try and get this addressed, but Comcast flat-out refuses to fix the issue.
The short answer is that Comcast refuses to fix it. In some (but not all) cases, our phone numbers are RCF'd numbers, so they don't actually exist on the trunk...and Comcast forcibly re-writes them to our 'main' number...and then routes the 911 call incorrectly. In other cases, we have provided Comcast with the e911 information, they say it's updated, and then we find out months later (when an office dials 911 during an emergency) that it's still not correct.
Not only does this affect 911 calls, but also customers who get the re-written caller ID and have no idea which office called them.
The "easy" solution is to ditch Comcast and move to a provider that doesn't play the RCF and caller-ID-rewrite games. Unfortunately my client is locked into their Comcast contract for another ~18 months. Early termination would incur a ~$35,000 bill.
Is there a list of PSAP numbers somewhere so I can set up an internal redirect to the PSAP 10-digit number? I know those 10-digit numbers are guarded like Fort Knox, so I'm betting this option isn't very realistic.
Maybe a separate service provider that can just handle 911 calls without "owning" my client's phone numbers?
Any other thoughts on how I can route around Comcast brain damage?
Thanks,
-A
participants (10)
-
aaron＠heyaaron.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
ivan.kovacevic＠startelecom.ca -
jared＠compuwizz.net -
jeffshultz＠sctcweb.com -
marylou＠backuptelecom.com -
matthew＠corp.crocker.com -
paul＠timmins.net -
peter＠4isps.com -
voiceops＠ics-il.net