Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%??? 2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE! Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed? Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 6/10/21 12:15 AM, Peter Beckman wrote:
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, I'm a little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this business. -- Alex -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, I'm a little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this business.
-- Alex
Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't cram on the bottom of the bill. Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item now, and a line item later.
I tell my customers to complain to their congress critter if they don?t like the 33% tax on the services. It?s for the children after all?. From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> on behalf of Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> Date: Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 12:38 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Crocker. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, I'm a little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this business.
-- Alex
Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't cram on the bottom of the bill. Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item now, and a line item later. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Except that some of us specifically sell "bottom line" pricing that is not variable and not padded with 20 lines of fees and taxes. Because our ILEC is known for quoting $100 and billing $130-150 actual price. On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 9:38 AM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, I'm a little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this business.
-- Alex
Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't cram on the bottom of the bill.
Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item now, and a line item later.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
That, and, while I am not at all an expert on what can and can't be recovered from customers, it was my impression that not 100% of USF can be passed on. On 6/10/21 1:03 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Except that some of us specifically sell "bottom line" pricing that is not variable and not padded with 20 lines of fees and taxes.? Because our ILEC is known for quoting $100 and billing $130-150 actual price.
On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 9:38 AM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net <mailto:paul at timmins.net>> wrote:
On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote: > > Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, I'm a > little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that > kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this business. > > -- Alex > Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't cram on the bottom of the bill.
Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item now, and a line item later.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops <https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops>
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
What service features of the service are subject to USF? is it only charged on retail land-line replacement or at multiple levels as a value-add? My understanding is that cellular services do not pay USF ( but, when we had a cell company several years ago, all taxes were outsourced..) Thanks Ed ?On 6/10/21, 1:07 PM, "VoiceOps on behalf of Alex Balashov" <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org on behalf of abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote: That, and, while I am not at all an expert on what can and can't be recovered from customers, it was my impression that not 100% of USF can be passed on. On 6/10/21 1:03 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote: > Except that some of us specifically sell "bottom line" pricing that is > not variable and not padded with 20 lines of fees and taxes. Because > our ILEC is known for quoting $100 and billing $130-150 actual price. > > On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 9:38 AM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net > <mailto:paul at timmins.net>> wrote: > > On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote: > > > > Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, > I'm a > > little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that > > kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this > business. > > > > -- Alex > > > Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't > cram > on the bottom of the bill. > > Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item > now, and a line item later. > > _______________________________________________ > VoiceOps mailing list > VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops > <https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops> > > > _______________________________________________ > VoiceOps mailing list > VoiceOps at voiceops.org > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops > -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Ed -- I'd love to see more data on this. Where did your understanding come from? I looked at my cellular bill last night, and on 4 lines, the "Fed Universal Service Charge" was a total of $1.88 on a total bill of about $180 (about $160 of it was just the monthly fee for 4 plans). Does anyone know how the wireless companies pay USF? E.g. they are paying 33.4% on what exactly? Beckman On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, Ed Guy wrote:
What service features of the service are subject to USF? is it only charged on retail land-line replacement or at multiple levels as a value-add? My understanding is that cellular services do not pay USF ( but, when we had a cell company several years ago, all taxes were outsourced..)
On 6/10/21, 1:07 PM, "VoiceOps on behalf of Alex Balashov" <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org on behalf of abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
That, and, while I am not at all an expert on what can and can't be recovered from customers, it was my impression that not 100% of USF can be passed on.
On 6/10/21 1:03 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Except that some of us specifically sell "bottom line" pricing that is not variable and not padded with 20 lines of fees and taxes. Because our ILEC is known for quoting $100 and billing $130-150 actual price.
On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 9:38 AM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote: > > Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, I'm a > little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that > kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this business. > Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't cram on the bottom of the bill.
Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item now, and a line item later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A comcast business package looks like this right now for a small biz: Internet - 69.95 Voice line - 39.95 Voice equipment fee - 18.45 (that is hilarious to convert their coax signal to fxs) FUSF - 3.19 Regulatory cost recovery - 1.36 Voice network investment - 3.00 (wtf) Directory listing mgmt fee - 2.00 Sales tax - 4.22 911 fees - 1.50 Grand total - 143.62 Where and how is that 3.19 calculated? I am curious as well. Matt -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Peter Beckman Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 3:58 PM To: Ed Guy <edguy at eguy.org> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 Ed -- I'd love to see more data on this. Where did your understanding come from? I looked at my cellular bill last night, and on 4 lines, the "Fed Universal Service Charge" was a total of $1.88 on a total bill of about $180 (about $160 of it was just the monthly fee for 4 plans). Does anyone know how the wireless companies pay USF? E.g. they are paying 33.4% on what exactly? Beckman On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, Ed Guy wrote:
What service features of the service are subject to USF? is it only charged on retail land-line replacement or at multiple levels as a value-add? My understanding is that cellular services do not pay USF ( but, when we had a cell company several years ago, all taxes were outsourced..)
On 6/10/21, 1:07 PM, "VoiceOps on behalf of Alex Balashov" <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org on behalf of abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
That, and, while I am not at all an expert on what can and can't be recovered from customers, it was my impression that not 100% of USF can be passed on.
On 6/10/21 1:03 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Except that some of us specifically sell "bottom line" pricing that is not variable and not padded with 20 lines of fees and taxes. Because our ILEC is known for quoting $100 and billing $130-150 actual price.
On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 9:38 AM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote: > > Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, I'm a > little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that > kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this business. > Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't cram on the bottom of the bill.
Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item now, and a line item later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
$3.19 is right around 24% of 33.4% of $39.95. Maybe Comcast's traffic studies show that 24% of phone traffic is interstate, so that's the amount that gets the USF charge? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Yaklin" <myaklin at firstlight.net> To: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com>, "Ed Guy" <edguy at eguy.org> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 3:07:53 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 A comcast business package looks like this right now for a small biz: Internet - 69.95 Voice line - 39.95 Voice equipment fee - 18.45 (that is hilarious to convert their coax signal to fxs) FUSF - 3.19 Regulatory cost recovery - 1.36 Voice network investment - 3.00 (wtf) Directory listing mgmt fee - 2.00 Sales tax - 4.22 911 fees - 1.50 Grand total - 143.62 Where and how is that 3.19 calculated? I am curious as well. Matt -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Peter Beckman Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 3:58 PM To: Ed Guy <edguy at eguy.org> Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 Ed -- I'd love to see more data on this. Where did your understanding come from? I looked at my cellular bill last night, and on 4 lines, the "Fed Universal Service Charge" was a total of $1.88 on a total bill of about $180 (about $160 of it was just the monthly fee for 4 plans). Does anyone know how the wireless companies pay USF? E.g. they are paying 33.4% on what exactly? Beckman On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, Ed Guy wrote:
What service features of the service are subject to USF? is it only charged on retail land-line replacement or at multiple levels as a value-add? My understanding is that cellular services do not pay USF ( but, when we had a cell company several years ago, all taxes were outsourced..)
On 6/10/21, 1:07 PM, "VoiceOps on behalf of Alex Balashov" <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org on behalf of abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
That, and, while I am not at all an expert on what can and can't be recovered from customers, it was my impression that not 100% of USF can be passed on.
On 6/10/21 1:03 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Except that some of us specifically sell "bottom line" pricing that is not variable and not padded with 20 lines of fees and taxes. Because our ILEC is known for quoting $100 and billing $130-150 actual price.
On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 9:38 AM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider,
I'm a
little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this business.
Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't cram on the bottom of the bill.
Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item now, and a line item later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 6/10/21 4:19 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
$3.19 is right around 24% of 33.4% of $39.95. Maybe Comcast's traffic studies show that 24% of phone traffic is interstate, so that's the amount that gets the USF charge? It had been my impression that the FCC rather particularly insisted on a small number of standardised methodologies for calculating the USF fees recovered from end-customers. That would be in order to prevent opaque schemes in which the fees are marked up further through some convoluted, abstruse arithmetic.
Based on that, it seems doubtful that they one can just amortise the aggregate pro rata share of interstate revenue across the entire customer base, regardless of whether the customer in question does much interstate calling themselves. Or am I wrong? -- Alex -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
I had thought it was, "here's the safe harbor. If you want to substitute your own traffic study go ahead. We won't define how it is calculated, just don't screw it up, or you'll get our boot in your backside." I figured it was as macro or micro as you wanted it to be and could support. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Balashov" <abalashov at evaristesys.com> To: voiceops at voiceops.org Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 3:29:08 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 On 6/10/21 4:19 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
$3.19 is right around 24% of 33.4% of $39.95. Maybe Comcast's traffic studies show that 24% of phone traffic is interstate, so that's the amount that gets the USF charge? It had been my impression that the FCC rather particularly insisted on a small number of standardised methodologies for calculating the USF fees recovered from end-customers. That would be in order to prevent opaque schemes in which the fees are marked up further through some convoluted, abstruse arithmetic.
Based on that, it seems doubtful that they one can just amortise the aggregate pro rata share of interstate revenue across the entire customer base, regardless of whether the customer in question does much interstate calling themselves. Or am I wrong? -- Alex -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Peter,
Where did your understanding come from?
My info could now be called 'Myth' - I've been out of the retail business for about 9 years. For cellular in US, we had to keep track of originating party jurisdiction, terminating party jurisdiction, and any O/T cells involved. Then the tax wizards ran some formula to break it up. The tax and billing software & services were more expensive than the communications systems. Alex, I recall a lot of discussion about 'Safe Harbor' tax payments - rather than detailed per call billing, using broad formulas to distribute the tax... Was particularly useful for flat-rate bundled plans. The tax man seemed unconcerned as long as they got their money. (Again, I would classify my retained knowledge as 'myth' ) /ed ** A couple more data points - $350 verizon wireless bill: Surcharges $2.64 Fed Universal Service Charge $0.48 Regulatory Charge $0.21 Administrative Charge $1.95 Taxes and gov fees $1.27 NJ 911 System/Emerg. Resp. Fee $0.90 NJ State Sls Tax-Telco $0.37 Phone.com: 05/12/2021 - 06/11/2021 Virtual Office plan $14.88 05/13/2021 Regulatory recovery fee $0.38 05/12/2021 - 05/13/2021 FUSF (VoIP) $3.32 05/12/2021 - 05/13/2021 FCC regulatory fee (VoIP) $0.05 05/12/2021 - 05/13/2021 Sales tax $1.25 ?On 6/10/21, 3:58 PM, "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> wrote: Ed -- I'd love to see more data on this. Where did your understanding come from? I looked at my cellular bill last night, and on 4 lines, the "Fed Universal Service Charge" was a total of $1.88 on a total bill of about $180 (about $160 of it was just the monthly fee for 4 plans). Does anyone know how the wireless companies pay USF? E.g. they are paying 33.4% on what exactly? Beckman On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, Ed Guy wrote: > What service features of the service are subject to USF? > is it only charged on retail land-line replacement or at multiple levels as a value-add? > My understanding is that cellular services do not pay USF ( but, when we had a > cell company several years ago, all taxes were outsourced..) > > > On 6/10/21, 1:07 PM, "VoiceOps on behalf of Alex Balashov" > <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org on behalf of abalashov at evaristesys.com> > wrote: > > That, and, while I am not at all an expert on what can and can't be > recovered from customers, it was my impression that not 100% of USF can > be passed on. > > On 6/10/21 1:03 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote: > > > Except that some of us specifically sell "bottom line" pricing that is > > not variable and not padded with 20 lines of fees and taxes. Because > > our ILEC is known for quoting $100 and billing $130-150 actual price. > > > > On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 9:38 AM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote: > > > > On 6/10/21 6:23 AM, Alex Balashov wrote: > > > > > > Yeah, observing it as an outsider who is not a service provider, > > I'm a > > > little shocked to say the least. It's hard to understand where that > > > kind of money is supposed to come from with the margins in this > > business. > > > > > Passthru fees to the end user, duh. There's nothing us telcos can't > > cram > > on the bottom of the bill. > > > > Customers are gonna be ticked, but what ya gonna do. It's a line item > > now, and a line item later. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't want to make this political but so long as we accept it and pay it, it wont go down. If more people started asking questions and demanded to understand why it kept going up then maybe there would be accountability. On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 12:21 AM Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> wrote:
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I don't have any inside info on that, but the purpose of USF is to subsidize service in high cost areas (usually rural). So either there are more services needing subsidies or fewer services paying in or some combination of both. Q2 2021 ? 33.4% Q1 2021 ? 31.8% Q4 2020 ? 27.1% Q3 2020 ? 26.5% Q2 2020 ? 19.6% Q1 2020 ? 21.2% Q4 2019 ? 25.0% Q3 2019 ? 24.4% Q2 2019 ? 18.8% Q1 2019 ? 20.0% Q4 2018 ? 20.1% Q3 2018 ? 17.9% Q2 2018 ? 18.4% ------ Original Message ------ From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: 6/10/2021 12:15:16 AM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.comhttp://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
It feels like every year, I see some elementary school building a 100gb coherent 288 strand dark fiber ring on e-rate funds. Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, but in the case of a local district, only by a bit (they were doing 40gb, for a district). A far cry from when we just subsidized some pots lines or a PRI. On 6/10/21 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I don't have any inside info on that, but the purpose of USF is to subsidize service in high cost areas (usually rural). So either there are more services needing subsidies or fewer services paying in or some combination of both.
Q2 2021 ? 33.4% Q1 2021 ? 31.8% Q4 2020 ? 27.1% Q3 2020 ? 26.5% Q2 2020 ? 19.6% Q1 2020 ? 21.2% Q4 2019 ? 25.0% Q3 2019 ? 24.4% Q2 2019 ? 18.8% Q1 2019 ? 20.0% Q4 2018 ? 20.1% Q3 2018 ? 17.9% Q2 2018 ? 18.4%
------ Original Message ------ From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: 6/10/2021 12:15:16 AM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Beckman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.comhttp://www.angryox.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Is that a bad thing? -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Paul Timmins Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:07 AM To: Adam Moffett; VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 It feels like every year, I see some elementary school building a 100gb coherent 288 strand dark fiber ring on e-rate funds. Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, but in the case of a local district, only by a bit (they were doing 40gb, for a district). A far cry from when we just subsidized some pots lines or a PRI. On 6/10/21 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I don't have any inside info on that, but the purpose of USF is to subsidize service in high cost areas (usually rural). So either there are more services needing subsidies or fewer services paying in or some combination of both.
Q2 2021 ? 33.4% Q1 2021 ? 31.8% Q4 2020 ? 27.1% Q3 2020 ? 26.5% Q2 2020 ? 19.6% Q1 2020 ? 21.2% Q4 2019 ? 25.0% Q3 2019 ? 24.4% Q2 2019 ? 18.8% Q1 2019 ? 20.0% Q4 2018 ? 20.1% Q3 2018 ? 17.9% Q2 2018 ? 18.4%
------ Original Message ------ From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: 6/10/2021 12:15:16 AM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Beckman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.comhttp://www.angryox.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
It is when we pay to build far more capacity than the school can conceivably use to a network that can't be repurposed for other things, especially when it overbuilds existing networks (ie: The school can't even make money leasing back excess capacity, because nobody needs the extra glass on that route). If the local taxpayers want to spend their money that way doing that in a metro area that's fine, but if we have to raise USF to get the funds needed to provide fiber to a school district fed by 6 T1s in BFE, then there's a huge problem with that, not just inequity (that school could self fund it, they're in one of the top 10 wealthiest zipcodes in the nation) but lack of priorities (they already have an existing 10 gig ring on IRUs and a handful of lit services, where some erate entrants 50 miles away are trying to upgrade from sharing a double digit cablemodem or even multilink T1s). If we fund them all, then you get 33.4% and rising. If we told that other school that they had to demonstrate the 10gb ring was insufficient for their needs in order to upgrade, we'd have more money to spend on the rural and inner city districts who don't have the money. -Paul On 6/10/21 11:11 AM, Joseph Jackson wrote:
Is that a bad thing?
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Paul Timmins Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:07 AM To: Adam Moffett; VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021
It feels like every year, I see some elementary school building a 100gb coherent 288 strand dark fiber ring on e-rate funds. Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, but in the case of a local district, only by a bit (they were doing 40gb, for a district).
A far cry from when we just subsidized some pots lines or a PRI.
On 6/10/21 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I don't have any inside info on that, but the purpose of USF is to subsidize service in high cost areas (usually rural). So either there are more services needing subsidies or fewer services paying in or some combination of both.
Q2 2021 ? 33.4% Q1 2021 ? 31.8% Q4 2020 ? 27.1% Q3 2020 ? 26.5% Q2 2020 ? 19.6% Q1 2020 ? 21.2% Q4 2019 ? 25.0% Q3 2019 ? 24.4% Q2 2019 ? 18.8% Q1 2019 ? 20.0% Q4 2018 ? 20.1% Q3 2018 ? 17.9% Q2 2018 ? 18.4%
------ Original Message ------ From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: 6/10/2021 12:15:16 AM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Beckman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.comhttp://www.angryox.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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Or just politics and payoffs? Ironically, we are seeing far more inexpensive options coming up, such as Starlink, yet also growing the taxes to serve them? Has any organization/tax been removed when it was no longer needed: Eg: Spanish-American war and telecom tax... On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 8:04 AM Adam Moffett <adam at plexicomm.net> wrote:
I don't have any inside info on that, but the purpose of USF is to subsidize service in high cost areas (usually rural). So either there are more services needing subsidies or fewer services paying in or some combination of both.
Q2 2021 ? 33.4% Q1 2021 ? 31.8% Q4 2020 ? 27.1% Q3 2020 ? 26.5% Q2 2020 ? 19.6% Q1 2020 ? 21.2% Q4 2019 ? 25.0% Q3 2019 ? 24.4% Q2 2019 ? 18.8% Q1 2019 ? 20.0% Q4 2018 ? 20.1% Q3 2018 ? 17.9% Q2 2018 ? 18.4%
------ Original Message ------ From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: 6/10/2021 12:15:16 AM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Beckman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.comhttp://www.angryox.com/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Slush. Fund. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:15:16 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%??? 2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE! Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed? Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Oversight is EXPENSIVE. Allen From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 11:24 AM To: Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> Cc: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 *** EXTERNAL E-MAIL SECURITY ALERT *** Please use caution before (1.) Replying to the message (2.) Opening any attachment (3.) Clicking on any link or URL. Please report any suspicious e-mail by clicking on the ?Report Phishing? icon or by forwarding the e-mail to Phishing at lpnt.net.<mailto:Phishing at lpnt.net> Slush. Fund. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/WhOiC9rXYrfkJRMJAionp3r?domain=ics-il.com> Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/OsAfC0R3DRUGnJMnQHDq5vX?domain=midwest-ix.com> ________________________________ From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com<mailto:beckman at angryox.com>> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org>> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:15:16 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%??? 2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE! Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed? Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com<mailto:beckman at angryox.com> http://www.angryox.com/<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/Hj9qCgJXMJSAvPmvKS2wRcl?domain=angryox.com/> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/NrCMCjRJ6RUnzl3zDt7G6ar?domain=puck.nether.net> The information transmitted via this e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or proprietary information. Any use, review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or pursuing of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are the recipient of this e-mail transmission in error, please reply to the sender and delete the material from any computer. Thank you.
Everything is > this year. Pretty much can expect it to keep climbing. You can?t print more money in one year than in the entire history of your country and not have an economic impact. It?s not going back down. That?s a given. ~K From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:24 AM To: Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> Cc: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 NOTE: This is an external message. Please use caution when replying, opening attachments or clicking on any links in this e-mail. Slush. Fund. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ________________________________ From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com<mailto:beckman at angryox.com>> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org>> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:15:16 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%??? 2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE! Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed? Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com<mailto:beckman at angryox.com> http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops NOTICE: This e-mail is only intended for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. Unless stated to the contrary, any opinions or comments are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of GTT Communications Inc or any of its affiliates. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. All quotes, offers, proposals and any other information in the body of this email is subject to, and limited by, the terms and conditions, signed service agreement and/or statement of work
I?m not sure there?s a clear path of reasoning from ?stimulus-driven price inflation? to ?increased regulatory taxes?. ? Sent from mobile, with due apologies for brevity and errors.
On Jun 10, 2021, at 11:31 AM, Kili Land <Kili.Land at gtt.net> wrote:
? Everything is > this year. Pretty much can expect it to keep climbing.
You can?t print more money in one year than in the entire history of your country and not have an economic impact.
It?s not going back down. That?s a given.
~K
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:24 AM To: Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> Cc: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021
NOTE: This is an external message. Please use caution when replying, opening attachments or clicking on any links in this e-mail.
Slush. Fund.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:15:16 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
NOTICE: This e-mail is only intended for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. Unless stated to the contrary, any opinions or comments are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of GTT Communications Inc or any of its affiliates. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. All quotes, offers, proposals and any other information in the body of this email is subject to, and limited by, the terms and conditions, signed service agreement and/or statement of work
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While OT for this list, this may be interesting: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2021/05/12/four-reasons-to-stop-panicking-over-inflation/<https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2021/05/12/four-reasons-to-stop-panicking-over-inflation/?sh=5ff0d13b3a97> Michael Graves mgraves at mstvp.com<mailto:mgraves at mstvp.com> o: (713) 861-4005 c: (713) 201-1262 sip:mgraves at mjg.onsip.com From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 11:25 AM To: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 I?m not sure there?s a clear path of reasoning from ?stimulus-driven price inflation? to ?increased regulatory taxes?. ? Sent from mobile, with due apologies for brevity and errors. On Jun 10, 2021, at 11:31 AM, Kili Land <Kili.Land at gtt.net<mailto:Kili.Land at gtt.net>> wrote: ? Everything is > this year. Pretty much can expect it to keep climbing. You can?t print more money in one year than in the entire history of your country and not have an economic impact. It?s not going back down. That?s a given. ~K From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org>> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:24 AM To: Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com<mailto:beckman at angryox.com>> Cc: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 NOTE: This is an external message. Please use caution when replying, opening attachments or clicking on any links in this e-mail. Slush. Fund. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ________________________________ From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com<mailto:beckman at angryox.com>> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org>> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:15:16 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%??? 2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE! Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed? Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com<mailto:beckman at angryox.com> http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops NOTICE: This e-mail is only intended for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. Unless stated to the contrary, any opinions or comments are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of GTT Communications Inc or any of its affiliates. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. All quotes, offers, proposals and any other information in the body of this email is subject to, and limited by, the terms and conditions, signed service agreement and/or statement of work _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
The FCC announced the proposed universal service contribution factor for the third quarter of 2021 will be 31.8%, down from the previous quarter?s 33.4%. https://www.neca.org/docs/default-source/wwpdf/public/da21676.pdf Calvin Ellison Systems Architect calvin.ellison at voxox.com The information contained herein is confidential and privileged information or work product intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately. Calvin Ellison Systems Architect calvin.ellison at voxox.com +1 (213) 285-0555 The information contained herein is confidential and privileged information or work product intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately. On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 9:21 PM Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> wrote:
Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%???
2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE!
Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed?
Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CD7SDMZ0wIgEH5hAg0nWnuTxcXmkRb1N22wN... I made a chart so you can see how the contribution factor has changed over time. It'd be nice if I had columns for how much they were spending, but I don't have the time to collect all of that too. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at angryox.com> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops at voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:15:16 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] USF is 33.4% for 2Q2021 Um. Wow. This is crazy. Why is it 33.4%??? 2 years ago it was 18.8%. This is DOUBLE! Will it stop increasing? Go back down? Are we doomed? Beckman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (16)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
adam＠plexicomm.net -
Allen.Watson＠wilmed.org -
beckman＠angryox.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
calvin.ellison＠voxox.com -
dovid＠telecurve.com -
edguy＠eguy.org -
jjackson＠aninetworks.net -
Kili.Land＠gtt.net -
matthew＠corp.crocker.com -
mgraves＠mstvp.com -
myaklin＠firstlight.net -
paul＠timmins.net -
ptimmins＠clearrate.com -
voiceops＠ics-il.net