Thanks for the quick reply, Ivan. Can you shed some light on who/why these are getting blocked? And if we interconnect directly with you this issue goes away? On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ivan Kovacevic < ivan.kovacevic at startelecom.ca> wrote:

Hi Pete,

We handle this type of traffic for a number of US-based hosted providers and US-based clients with Canadian offices, who have the exact same problem as you. We are based in Canada.

BTW, Toll Free to Toll Free is not supposed to work? and if it does, it?s by luck? so I wouldn?t rely on this.

Cheers.

Best Regards,

Ivan Kovacevic

Star Telecom | www.startelecom.ca | SIP Based Services for Contact Centers

*From:* VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] *On Behalf Of *PE *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:04 PM *To:* voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject:* [VoiceOps] Canadian Toll Free

Greetings VoiceOpers,

There are a handful of US SIP carriers who offer the promise of doing business in Canada with Canadian DID's. The challenge we've seen is that when you call some toll free numbers from those Canadian DID's the call gets blocked by the far end, presumably because the switching equipment is in the US. No issues dialing the same numbers from the US.

We've attempted to deliver these calls over numerous different carriers with the same results. Talking with some of these carriers, we're told this is a known frustration and noone seems to have a way around it. The only thing that has helped even a little is if the customer is willing to use a toll free number as the Originating ANI, but even then it is spotty.

We're not trying to do any sort of toll bypass or anything unsavory. Just want to be able to serve US customers who happen to also have some Canadian locations.

Anyone have a solve for this?

Thanks, Pete

Sorry, I am not sure I understand the problem. Are you trying to call from a Canadian number to a (US) TFN? As far as I know the owner of the TFN should allow traffic from Canadian numbers. If he blocks calls from Canada (because it is more expensive...) then the calls will not go through. Did you try those TFNs from other Canadian numbers (such as Rogers Bell etc')? This will give you an indication if the TFN is blocked for Canada, or there is a problem specific to your provider's network. Oren On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Ivan Kovacevic < ivan.kovacevic at startelecom.ca> wrote:

Originating Carrier/LATA I would suspect. Sometimes the application will block all non-Canadian NPAs (Including TF), but as you pointed out ? if you are using a Canadian number as the ANI and still can?t get through then it?s a network based issue.

Most of the time yes? TF to TF is still spotty.

Best Regards,

Ivan

*From:* PE [mailto:peeip989 at gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:11 PM *To:* Ivan Kovacevic *Cc:* voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject:* Re: [VoiceOps] Canadian Toll Free

Thanks for the quick reply, Ivan. Can you shed some light on who/why these are getting blocked? And if we interconnect directly with you this issue goes away?

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ivan Kovacevic < ivan.kovacevic at startelecom.ca> wrote:

Hi Pete,

We handle this type of traffic for a number of US-based hosted providers and US-based clients with Canadian offices, who have the exact same problem as you. We are based in Canada.

BTW, Toll Free to Toll Free is not supposed to work? and if it does, it?s by luck? so I wouldn?t rely on this.

Cheers.

Best Regards,

Ivan Kovacevic

Star Telecom | www.startelecom.ca | SIP Based Services for Contact Centers

*From:* VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] *On Behalf Of *PE *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:04 PM *To:* voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject:* [VoiceOps] Canadian Toll Free

Greetings VoiceOpers,

There are a handful of US SIP carriers who offer the promise of doing business in Canada with Canadian DID's. The challenge we've seen is that when you call some toll free numbers from those Canadian DID's the call gets blocked by the far end, presumably because the switching equipment is in the US. No issues dialing the same numbers from the US.

We've attempted to deliver these calls over numerous different carriers with the same results. Talking with some of these carriers, we're told this is a known frustration and noone seems to have a way around it. The only thing that has helped even a little is if the customer is willing to use a toll free number as the Originating ANI, but even then it is spotty.

We're not trying to do any sort of toll bypass or anything unsavory. Just want to be able to serve US customers who happen to also have some Canadian locations.

Anyone have a solve for this?

Thanks, Pete

_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

I've had the same issue. From what I can figure, it stems from the Toll Free provider expecting the call to come in via a Canadian trunk but it comes in via a US trunk instead. So the call gets blocked because transport most likely costs more than expected. Similar situation as dumping long distance calls onto a local tandem here in the US to bypass toll charges. What I've also found is Canadian providers tend to charge for terminating TF traffic whereas in the US, providers pay you to terminate the traffic. So if there is a Canadian provider willing to accept TF calls and not charge, I'm up for interconnecting to fix this issue. Jared On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:32 PM, PE <peeip989 at gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry if it is not clear. The issue is dialing Canadian TF from a Canadian DID. That TF number is reachable from US numbers as well as customers can call them from their Canadian cell phones, etc. It is something peculiar with terminating to Canadian TF when the call is routed from the US, or so it seems.

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Oren Yehezkely <orenyny at gmail.com> wrote:

...

Sorry, I am not sure I understand the problem.

Are you trying to call from a Canadian number to a (US) TFN?

As far as I know the owner of the TFN should allow traffic from Canadian numbers. If he blocks calls from Canada (because it is more expensive...) then the calls will not go through.

Did you try those TFNs from other Canadian numbers (such as Rogers Bell etc')? This will give you an indication if the TFN is blocked for Canada, or there is a problem specific to your provider's network.

Oren

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Ivan Kovacevic < ivan.kovacevic at startelecom.ca> wrote:

...

Originating Carrier/LATA I would suspect. Sometimes the application will block all non-Canadian NPAs (Including TF), but as you pointed out ? if you are using a Canadian number as the ANI and still can?t get through then it?s a network based issue.

Most of the time yes? TF to TF is still spotty.

Best Regards,

Ivan

*From:* PE [mailto:peeip989 at gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:11 PM *To:* Ivan Kovacevic *Cc:* voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject:* Re: [VoiceOps] Canadian Toll Free

Thanks for the quick reply, Ivan. Can you shed some light on who/why these are getting blocked? And if we interconnect directly with you this issue goes away?

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ivan Kovacevic < ivan.kovacevic at startelecom.ca> wrote:

Hi Pete,

We handle this type of traffic for a number of US-based hosted providers and US-based clients with Canadian offices, who have the exact same problem as you. We are based in Canada.

BTW, Toll Free to Toll Free is not supposed to work? and if it does, it?s by luck? so I wouldn?t rely on this.

Cheers.

Best Regards,

Ivan Kovacevic

Star Telecom | www.startelecom.ca | SIP Based Services for Contact Centers

*From:* VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] *On Behalf Of * PE *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:04 PM *To:* voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject:* [VoiceOps] Canadian Toll Free

Greetings VoiceOpers,

There are a handful of US SIP carriers who offer the promise of doing business in Canada with Canadian DID's. The challenge we've seen is that when you call some toll free numbers from those Canadian DID's the call gets blocked by the far end, presumably because the switching equipment is in the US. No issues dialing the same numbers from the US.

We've attempted to deliver these calls over numerous different carriers with the same results. Talking with some of these carriers, we're told this is a known frustration and noone seems to have a way around it. The only thing that has helped even a little is if the customer is willing to use a toll free number as the Originating ANI, but even then it is spotty.

We're not trying to do any sort of toll bypass or anything unsavory. Just want to be able to serve US customers who happen to also have some Canadian locations.

Anyone have a solve for this?

Thanks, Pete

_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

The thing that makes the most sense for me, as a resporg, is that the number's traffic is affected when the TFN is routed to a carrier that does not have its CIC loaded in the local switch that's doing the toll free database lookup (usually the local class 5 switch, sometimes the class 4 tandem just above it in the hierarchy). So if the CAD record indicates a Canadian LATA (888) or one of the Canadian NPAs, you may find that the terminating CIC is set to, for example "ALN-0539" which is Global Crossing (now Level 3's) CIC in Canada (if I recall, I'm not logged in to the SMS at the moment). FGD CIC 0539 isn't loaded in any domestic US tandems that I'm aware of, so when your 800 dip comes back with CIC 0539 TN 8005551212, your local tandem might not have anywhere to send that call, and it fails. Alternatively, the TN could be listed with an area of service of "US" instead of "XA" or "XC" which would cause an out of band announcement "This number cannot be reached from your calling area" should it be called from a Canadian number. Most terminating IXCs charge extra for calls from Canada (because they have to pick up the call in Canada, and transport it to your US domestic location, so it's an international call and it costs more to the terminating party, so many customers choose to block calls from Canada and the Caribbean). Now, if you call from a Canadian number, through a Canadian tandem, you'll get the right translations to get the call where it needs to go. Sometimes, it will work, though. Verizon Business Option 1 network, for example, uses CIC 0222 in the US and Canada, so calls to numbers that translate to that CIC will work basically throughout the entire NANPA. -Paul On May 6, 2014, at 23:27, Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:

Our solution is less than elegant but seems to be working. We do a check in translations and if the source NPA is canadian and the destination is TollFree we then punt it to a termination trunk we have with a canadian carrier.

We use Thinktel for this. They have been a solid partner and have been easy to work with.

Hope that helps

-Ryan

On 05/06/2014 12:03 PM, PE wrote:

...

Greetings VoiceOpers,

There are a handful of US SIP carriers who offer the promise of doing business in Canada with Canadian DID's. The challenge we've seen is that when you call some toll free numbers from those Canadian DID's the call gets blocked by the far end, presumably because the switching equipment is in the US. No issues dialing the same numbers from the US.

We've attempted to deliver these calls over numerous different carriers with the same results. Talking with some of these carriers, we're told this is a known frustration and noone seems to have a way around it. The only thing that has helped even a little is if the customer is willing to use a toll free number as the Originating ANI, but even then it is spotty.

We're not trying to do any sort of toll bypass or anything unsavory. Just want to be able to serve US customers who happen to also have some Canadian locations.

Anyone have a solve for this?

Thanks, Pete

_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops