We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them. Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system.
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too. Dan From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them. Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system.
That sounds unbelievable. Do you really have evidence that a damaged cable somehow pulse dialed 911? I think the issue is something upstream like what data the PSAP is getting has been spoofed or is just inadvertently incorrect, for example. Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
? We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I've definitely had this happen to me. I lived in a house with old copper that was poorly installed, but no actual service on it. Because I didn't need it, I never gave it any attention...until the second time cops showed up at the door thinking someone was being killed. To be clear, this phone number is NOT with us, never ported, no connection that I can find to this customer other than the CNAM is theirs. I have zero control of it. On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 1:22 PM Brandon Svec <bsvec at teamonesolutions.com> wrote:
That sounds unbelievable. Do you really have evidence that a damaged cable somehow pulse dialed 911? I think the issue is something upstream like what data the PSAP is getting has been spoofed or is just inadvertently incorrect, for example.
Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
?
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
*From:* VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> *On Behalf Of *Carlos Alvarez *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM *To:* voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject:* [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Some of my equipment will show a notice, hinting at a possible issue, when "MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED".? A couple years ago, the responsibility of our switching gear was being transitioned to me as the previous guy was retiring.? During that period of time, I noticed a station in particular would throw that message a lot, up to 50 times a day. There is also an entry every time somebody calls 911. One late night I saw somebody call 911 multiple times.? I looked up the line and found it was the one with all the MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED issues.? I called the sheriff's office. I asked if they had any weird 911 calls from that number.? They replied, ecstatically, "YES, like seven times!"? They said it would be static for a long period of time and eventually hang up. I suppose the dispatchers really shouldn't be quick to hang up their end, just in case.? So they have to wait out the call...listening to the static. I promptly unwired it and put in a trouble.? I thought, surely this isn't a common issue, right?? Lines with static on them don't just call 911 by themselves!? Do they?? Well, in my phone call with the Sheriff's Office, they said this is NOT an out of the ordinary event for them. I audited some more.? One of them, with a butt set in monitor mode, I heard a lot static with, "If you'd like to make a call please hang up and try again," in the background.? Looking at our logs, that one had called 911 too.? We keep those logs for 6 months.? In that 6 month period, my analysis found 16 "left-in" stations that had presumably self-dialed 911 a total of 35 times. Since I stumbled across that, we keep a much closer eye on these sorts of things.? Basically, any line that frequently or repeatably throws the MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED notice, we do an audit on. A little more background on what causes this: Pulse dialing is performed by rapidly interrupting the telephone circuit for each digit dialed.? This method was sometimes referred to as loop disconnect dialing.? When you think of pulse dialing, you might immediately think of rotary phones.? You might also have visions of stepping switches. One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed.? Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on.? You need to have at least a brief timeout between the digits to indicate you are done with that digit and starting the next.? The exact timing is relatively loose, leaving a lot of wiggle room.? Any sort of interference that is creating a make/break cycle has the potential to pulse dial.? Multiple makes and breaks with the right timing (and again, the timing is pretty loose) could conceivably call anywhere...with no human being involved!? The odd thing isn't having it happen - it's having it happen to a specific number. For 911, you simply need: ? - 9 rapid interruptions ? - pause ? - 1 interruption ? - pause ? - 1 interruption For lines that are shorting out, arcing, in water, or whatever, it is only a matter of time. -Mike Johnston
Thanks for sharing. 25+ years, most of which was hands on in the field with analog lines, PBX, low voltage cable, etc. and I never came across or heard of this happening. I fully understand how it is technically possible ( I have even demonstrated pulse dialing with a key on a 66 block with a butt set), but it also seems just as likely for *any* number to be dialed as it does for 911 so I am still not 100% convinced, but am open to knowing more. Certainly 0 for the operator being 10 pulses should happen at least as often if not more than 911 since it would just need 10 correct pulses and no perfectly placed longer pauses twice after the first 9 digits which seems would be much more rare. You wrote, "I audited some more. One of them, with a butt set in monitor mode, I heard a lot static with, "If you'd like to make a call please hang up and try again," in the background. Looking at our logs, that one had called 911 too. We keep those logs for 6 months. In that 6 month period, my analysis found 16 "left-in" stations that had presumably self-dialed 911 a total of 35 times.? How do you explain the intercept message in the background of a call dialing 911? That sounds to me like the result of a double punched line or crosstalk. Maybe living and working in N. California with the fair weather explains my lack of experience around this. I am aware that many parts of the country do a lot of extra things to protect against lightning strikes that are unusual to see in N. California. What I have seen a lot of is misconfigured or compromised PBX and voicemail systems call 911 and also plenty of user error on centrex or PBX lines that require 9. DTMF or pulse it is pretty easy to dial 911 by accident and a lot of people are afraid or embarrassed to admit they may have done it. Do you care to share what make/model of equipment was alerting you to the "MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED? message? Just curious to learn more. Best, Brandon
On Jan 21, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote:
Some of my equipment will show a notice, hinting at a possible issue, when "MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED". A couple years ago, the responsibility of our switching gear was being transitioned to me as the previous guy was retiring. During that period of time, I noticed a station in particular would throw that message a lot, up to 50 times a day.
There is also an entry every time somebody calls 911.
One late night I saw somebody call 911 multiple times. I looked up the line and found it was the one with all the MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED issues. I called the sheriff's office. I asked if they had any weird 911 calls from that number. They replied, ecstatically, "YES, like seven times!" They said it would be static for a long period of time and eventually hang up. I suppose the dispatchers really shouldn't be quick to hang up their end, just in case. So they have to wait out the call...listening to the static.
I promptly unwired it and put in a trouble. I thought, surely this isn't a common issue, right? Lines with static on them don't just call 911 by themselves! Do they? Well, in my phone call with the Sheriff's Office, they said this is NOT an out of the ordinary event for them.
I audited some more. One of them, with a butt set in monitor mode, I heard a lot static with, "If you'd like to make a call please hang up and try again," in the background. Looking at our logs, that one had called 911 too. We keep those logs for 6 months. In that 6 month period, my analysis found 16 "left-in" stations that had presumably self-dialed 911 a total of 35 times.
Since I stumbled across that, we keep a much closer eye on these sorts of things. Basically, any line that frequently or repeatably throws the MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED notice, we do an audit on.
A little more background on what causes this:
Pulse dialing is performed by rapidly interrupting the telephone circuit for each digit dialed. This method was sometimes referred to as loop disconnect dialing. When you think of pulse dialing, you might immediately think of rotary phones. You might also have visions of stepping switches.
One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed. Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on. You need to have at least a brief timeout between the digits to indicate you are done with that digit and starting the next. The exact timing is relatively loose, leaving a lot of wiggle room. Any sort of interference that is creating a make/break cycle has the potential to pulse dial. Multiple makes and breaks with the right timing (and again, the timing is pretty loose) could conceivably call anywhere...with no human being involved! The odd thing isn't having it happen - it's having it happen to a specific number.
For 911, you simply need: - 9 rapid interruptions - pause - 1 interruption - pause - 1 interruption
For lines that are shorting out, arcing, in water, or whatever, it is only a matter of time.
-Mike Johnston
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I think another possibility for the why 911 vs another random number is when you introduce dialing plans into the mix. Because of the ambiguity avoidance around 9xx, there?s probably a lot of stuff out there that runs a call without further waiting for digits once those are in the mix. Lots of other numbers would fail to be valid NANPA length numbers, and would just be failed call attempts before they became a nuisance to any one destination. Mixed audio definitely sounds like crossed lines, which is also a common water ingress problem.
On Jan 21, 2021, at 18:26, Brandon Svec <bsvec at teamonesolutions.com> wrote:
?Thanks for sharing. 25+ years, most of which was hands on in the field with analog lines, PBX, low voltage cable, etc. and I never came across or heard of this happening. I fully understand how it is technically possible ( I have even demonstrated pulse dialing with a key on a 66 block with a butt set), but it also seems just as likely for *any* number to be dialed as it does for 911 so I am still not 100% convinced, but am open to knowing more. Certainly 0 for the operator being 10 pulses should happen at least as often if not more than 911 since it would just need 10 correct pulses and no perfectly placed longer pauses twice after the first 9 digits which seems would be much more rare.
You wrote, "I audited some more. One of them, with a butt set in monitor mode, I heard a lot static with, "If you'd like to make a call please hang up and try again," in the background. Looking at our logs, that one had called 911 too. We keep those logs for 6 months. In that 6 month period, my analysis found 16 "left-in" stations that had presumably self-dialed 911 a total of 35 times.?
How do you explain the intercept message in the background of a call dialing 911? That sounds to me like the result of a double punched line or crosstalk.
Maybe living and working in N. California with the fair weather explains my lack of experience around this. I am aware that many parts of the country do a lot of extra things to protect against lightning strikes that are unusual to see in N. California. What I have seen a lot of is misconfigured or compromised PBX and voicemail systems call 911 and also plenty of user error on centrex or PBX lines that require 9. DTMF or pulse it is pretty easy to dial 911 by accident and a lot of people are afraid or embarrassed to admit they may have done it.
Do you care to share what make/model of equipment was alerting you to the "MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED? message? Just curious to learn more.
Best, Brandon
On Jan 21, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote:
Some of my equipment will show a notice, hinting at a possible issue, when "MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED". A couple years ago, the responsibility of our switching gear was being transitioned to me as the previous guy was retiring. During that period of time, I noticed a station in particular would throw that message a lot, up to 50 times a day.
There is also an entry every time somebody calls 911.
One late night I saw somebody call 911 multiple times. I looked up the line and found it was the one with all the MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED issues. I called the sheriff's office. I asked if they had any weird 911 calls from that number. They replied, ecstatically, "YES, like seven times!" They said it would be static for a long period of time and eventually hang up. I suppose the dispatchers really shouldn't be quick to hang up their end, just in case. So they have to wait out the call...listening to the static.
I promptly unwired it and put in a trouble. I thought, surely this isn't a common issue, right? Lines with static on them don't just call 911 by themselves! Do they? Well, in my phone call with the Sheriff's Office, they said this is NOT an out of the ordinary event for them.
I audited some more. One of them, with a butt set in monitor mode, I heard a lot static with, "If you'd like to make a call please hang up and try again," in the background. Looking at our logs, that one had called 911 too. We keep those logs for 6 months. In that 6 month period, my analysis found 16 "left-in" stations that had presumably self-dialed 911 a total of 35 times.
Since I stumbled across that, we keep a much closer eye on these sorts of things. Basically, any line that frequently or repeatably throws the MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED notice, we do an audit on.
A little more background on what causes this:
Pulse dialing is performed by rapidly interrupting the telephone circuit for each digit dialed. This method was sometimes referred to as loop disconnect dialing. When you think of pulse dialing, you might immediately think of rotary phones. You might also have visions of stepping switches.
One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed. Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on. You need to have at least a brief timeout between the digits to indicate you are done with that digit and starting the next. The exact timing is relatively loose, leaving a lot of wiggle room. Any sort of interference that is creating a make/break cycle has the potential to pulse dial. Multiple makes and breaks with the right timing (and again, the timing is pretty loose) could conceivably call anywhere...with no human being involved! The odd thing isn't having it happen - it's having it happen to a specific number.
For 911, you simply need: - 9 rapid interruptions - pause - 1 interruption - pause - 1 interruption
For lines that are shorting out, arcing, in water, or whatever, it is only a matter of time.
-Mike Johnston
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 2021-01-21 17:25, Brandon Svec wrote:
but it also seems just as likely for*any* number to be dialed as it does for 911 so I am still not 100% convinced, but am open to knowing more. Certainly 0 for the operator being 10 pulses should happen at least as often if not more than 911 since it would just need 10 correct pulses and no perfectly placed longer pauses twice after the first 9 digits which seems would be much more rare.
GREAT QUESTION! The stations I am speaking of are suspended in our equipment, which means they can only dial a few things: 911, 611, and in our case 777. The first one is probably obvious. 611 is so the subscriber can call the telephone company to re-active their service. (For example, a stations is sometimes suspended for non-payment, so they need a way to call to pay their bill.) 777 is what my telco uses for line identification (it reads you back your telephone number). Suspended lines are generally not maintained as well as lines for paying subscribers. Thus, this issue most often occurs on lines that are not able to call the operator, or anything but 911, 611, and 777. Any other combination would not go through. Now you may be thinking, wouldn't there be roughly as many calls to 611 as calls to 911? Wouldn't the staff in my company's billing office be getting these calls as well? Yes, they do get these sorts of calls, but we haven't logged them like we do the 911 calls, so I can't give you exact figures. Also, unlike the dispatchers at the sheriff's office, the telephone company staff can hang up on these calls, and are only open M-F 8-5, thus it is not nearly as impactful. If we had such a faulty line on a non-suspended station, which could call any number, then yes, it would surely be calling all sorts of destinations. And I agree, calling the operator seems more likely in this situation, since, as you point out, it just needs 10 identical pulses, probably followed by a long pause.
How do you explain the intercept message in the background of a call dialing 911? That sounds to me like the result of a double punched line or crosstalk.
It wasn't dialing 911 at that exact moment. To be more specific, my logs showed it had called 911 eight times over the proceeding three days.
Do you care to share what make/model of equipment was alerting you to the "MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED? message? Just curious to learn more.
We have four Ribbon C15 units, formally Genband C15, formally Genband CS1500, which replaced four Nortel DMS-10 units. We still have a bunch of legacy LCE bays, which I despise because T1s, but also appreciate because they have emergency stand alone capabilities. The message it will produce on the terminals is something like: LIN015 XXXX LCE 01 1 03 23 where XXXX is the site/LCE name, and the numbers represents the LCE position. If you do a lookup on LIN015, you get: LIN015 MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED IN DP ANALYSIS
Thank you for indulging me and sharing this! While I fully believe this *can* happen and *has* happened I suspect it doesn?t actually happen as often as it becomes a plausible answer and then the line is fixed or disabled or it just stops happening with no known root cause or follow up. I am a very skeptical person by nature and without hard evidence or the ability to reproduce an issue I will never feel certain ;) To further demonstrate my skepticism, I can imagine both the "MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED IN DP ANALYSIS? message and the suspected wet/damaged/intermittent signaling hypotheses explained by someone playing around on the line. It could be malicious or semi-malicious tapped into the line somewhere or even accidental like someone connecting equipment wrong or running metal over binding posts, etc.I can even imagine a telco or CPE tech doing it purposely to upset someone or cause trouble. Brandon
On Jan 21, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote:
On 2021-01-21 17:25, Brandon Svec wrote:
but it also seems just as likely for*any* number to be dialed as it does for 911 so I am still not 100% convinced, but am open to knowing more. Certainly 0 for the operator being 10 pulses should happen at least as often if not more than 911 since it would just need 10 correct pulses and no perfectly placed longer pauses twice after the first 9 digits which seems would be much more rare.
GREAT QUESTION!
The stations I am speaking of are suspended in our equipment, which means they can only dial a few things: 911, 611, and in our case 777. The first one is probably obvious. 611 is so the subscriber can call the telephone company to re-active their service. (For example, a stations is sometimes suspended for non-payment, so they need a way to call to pay their bill.) 777 is what my telco uses for line identification (it reads you back your telephone number).
Suspended lines are generally not maintained as well as lines for paying subscribers. Thus, this issue most often occurs on lines that are not able to call the operator, or anything but 911, 611, and 777. Any other combination would not go through.
Now you may be thinking, wouldn't there be roughly as many calls to 611 as calls to 911? Wouldn't the staff in my company's billing office be getting these calls as well? Yes, they do get these sorts of calls, but we haven't logged them like we do the 911 calls, so I can't give you exact figures. Also, unlike the dispatchers at the sheriff's office, the telephone company staff can hang up on these calls, and are only open M-F 8-5, thus it is not nearly as impactful.
If we had such a faulty line on a non-suspended station, which could call any number, then yes, it would surely be calling all sorts of destinations. And I agree, calling the operator seems more likely in this situation, since, as you point out, it just needs 10 identical pulses, probably followed by a long pause.
How do you explain the intercept message in the background of a call dialing 911? That sounds to me like the result of a double punched line or crosstalk.
It wasn't dialing 911 at that exact moment. To be more specific, my logs showed it had called 911 eight times over the proceeding three days.
Do you care to share what make/model of equipment was alerting you to the "MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED? message? Just curious to learn more.
We have four Ribbon C15 units, formally Genband C15, formally Genband CS1500, which replaced four Nortel DMS-10 units. We still have a bunch of legacy LCE bays, which I despise because T1s, but also appreciate because they have emergency stand alone capabilities. The message it will produce on the terminals is something like:
LIN015 XXXX LCE 01 1 03 23
where XXXX is the site/LCE name, and the numbers represents the LCE position. If you do a lookup on LIN015, you get:
LIN015 MORE THAN 10 DIAL PULSES WERE RECEIVED IN DP ANALYSIS
So close! But on the PoTS equipment I'm familiar with (others can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on a larger scale) the numbers are reversed (well for all except 5 :) Basically it counts down from 10. 1 pulse is digit '9', 4 pulses is digit '6', 10 pulses is digit '0'. So do dial 911 you need: 1 brief loop interruption pause 9 brief loop interruptions pause 9 brief loop interruptions <wield flame suit> Pete
On 22/01/2021, at 12:07 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote: <snip> One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed. Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on. You need to have at least a brief timeout <snip>
That would be odd.... one of the reasons that big cities in the US got area codes like 212 was because it was shorter to dial with fewer pulses needed. Hawaii got stuck with 808.... On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:43 PM Pete Mundy <pete at mac.geek.nz> wrote:
So close! But on the PoTS equipment I'm familiar with (others can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on a larger scale) the numbers are reversed
(well for all except 5 :)
Basically it counts down from 10. 1 pulse is digit '9', 4 pulses is digit '6', 10 pulses is digit '0'.
So do dial 911 you need:
1 brief loop interruption pause 9 brief loop interruptions pause 9 brief loop interruptions
<wield flame suit>
Pete
On 22/01/2021, at 12:07 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote: <snip> One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed. Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on. You need to have at least a brief timeout <snip>
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Island time is chill, yo. New Yorkers and Southern Californians got to do things like NOW! Two pulses, one pulse, three pulses would be Los Angeles. I mean, I can test dial something right here at home if you want, I have the means. Yes, it works. https://imgur.com/5m2Fe5b On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 4:52 PM Jeff Shultz <jeffshultz at sctcweb.com> wrote:
That would be odd.... one of the reasons that big cities in the US got area codes like 212 was because it was shorter to dial with fewer pulses needed. Hawaii got stuck with 808....
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:43 PM Pete Mundy <pete at mac.geek.nz> wrote:
So close! But on the PoTS equipment I'm familiar with (others can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on a larger scale) the numbers are reversed
(well for all except 5 :)
Basically it counts down from 10. 1 pulse is digit '9', 4 pulses is digit '6', 10 pulses is digit '0'.
So do dial 911 you need:
1 brief loop interruption pause 9 brief loop interruptions pause 9 brief loop interruptions
<wield flame suit>
Pete
On 22/01/2021, at 12:07 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote: <snip> One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed. Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on. You need to have at least a brief timeout <snip>
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-- Jeff Shultz
Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!!
<https://www.facebook.com/SCTCWEB/> <https://www.instagram.com/sctc_503/> <https://www.yelp.com/biz/sctc-stayton-3> <https://www.youtube.com/c/sctcvideos>
**** This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. **** _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
My understanding was that it was chosen cause it was easy to remember (especially for kids), simple to dial, and didn?t conflict with any service or area code with no consideration for pulse shortness. -- Fred direct/sms +1 (336) 439-3733
On Jan 21, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
? Island time is chill, yo. New Yorkers and Southern Californians got to do things like NOW!
Two pulses, one pulse, three pulses would be Los Angeles.
I mean, I can test dial something right here at home if you want, I have the means. Yes, it works. https://imgur.com/5m2Fe5b
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 4:52 PM Jeff Shultz <jeffshultz at sctcweb.com> wrote: That would be odd.... one of the reasons that big cities in the US got area codes like 212 was because it was shorter to dial with fewer pulses needed. Hawaii got stuck with 808....
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:43 PM Pete Mundy <pete at mac.geek.nz> wrote:
So close! But on the PoTS equipment I'm familiar with (others can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on a larger scale) the numbers are reversed
(well for all except 5 :)
Basically it counts down from 10. 1 pulse is digit '9', 4 pulses is digit '6', 10 pulses is digit '0'.
So do dial 911 you need:
1 brief loop interruption pause 9 brief loop interruptions pause 9 brief loop interruptions
<wield flame suit>
Pete
On 22/01/2021, at 12:07 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote: <snip> One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed. Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on. You need to have at least a brief timeout <snip>
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I?m a 42 year veteran of the industry who worked on electromechanical switching in the late 70?s, the rest is history. Correct to lower number pulses being lower number digits in switching. If your switch is still ?rotary? capable you can still hookswitch dial complete phone numbers to complete calls. Dave From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Jeff Shultz Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 5:51 PM To: Voiceops.org <voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID That would be odd.... one of the reasons that big cities in the US got area codes like 212 was because it was shorter to dial with fewer pulses needed. Hawaii got stuck with 808.... On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:43 PM Pete Mundy <pete at mac.geek.nz <mailto:pete at mac.geek.nz> > wrote: So close! But on the PoTS equipment I'm familiar with (others can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on a larger scale) the numbers are reversed (well for all except 5 :) Basically it counts down from 10. 1 pulse is digit '9', 4 pulses is digit '6', 10 pulses is digit '0'. So do dial 911 you need: 1 brief loop interruption pause 9 brief loop interruptions pause 9 brief loop interruptions <wield flame suit> Pete
On 22/01/2021, at 12:07 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com <mailto:mjohnston at wiktel.com> > wrote: <snip> One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed. Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on. You need to have at least a brief timeout <snip>
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No, it's really just 1-9 clicks, or 10 clicks for 0. I've got a rotary dial on the desk next to me. On 1/21/21 6:42 PM, Pete Mundy wrote:
So close! But on the PoTS equipment I'm familiar with (others can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on a larger scale) the numbers are reversed
(well for all except 5 :)
Basically it counts down from 10. 1 pulse is digit '9', 4 pulses is digit '6', 10 pulses is digit '0'.
So do dial 911 you need:
1 brief loop interruption pause 9 brief loop interruptions pause 9 brief loop interruptions
<wield flame suit>
Pete
On 22/01/2021, at 12:07 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote: <snip> One interrupt represents the digit "1" being dialed. Two rapid interrupts represents the digit "2", and so on. You need to have at least a brief timeout <snip>
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 2021-01-21 17:42, Pete Mundy wrote:
on the PoTS equipment I'm familiar with (others can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on a larger scale) the numbers are reversed
According to Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_dialing#Pulse_rate_and_coding>:
In most switching systems one pulse is used for the digit 1, two pulses for 2, and so on, with ten pulses for the digit 0; this makes the code unary, excepting the digit 0. Exceptions to this are: Sweden (example dial), with one pulse for 0, two pulses for 1, and so on; *_and New Zealand with ten pulses for 0, nine pulses for 1, etc_*. Oslo, the capital city of Norway, used the New Zealand system, but the rest of the country did not. Systems that used this encoding of the ten digits in a sequence of up to ten pulses, are known as decadic dialing systems.
So you're in New Zealand :)
D'oh! Guilty (and ignorant) as charged. Thank you Mike (and others) for enlightening me :) Bloody classic really - I've always know it worked that way because I used to "tap out" free calls home to Mum to pick me up when I was a lad and needed a ride home. This was before the times of cellphones of course - but there were these little red telephone boxes all over the place and if you 'reverse tapped' your phone number you could call Mum without needing 20c! Now I gotta get on and drive this mob of sheep down to the market then get some fush & chips... Happy NY all Pete
On 22/01/2021, at 1:25 PM, Mike Johnston <mjohnston at wiktel.com> wrote:
On 2021-01-21 17:42, Pete Mundy wrote:
on the PoTS equipment I'm familiar with (others can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on a larger scale) the numbers are reversed
According to Wikipedia:
<snip>and New Zealand with ten pulses for 0, nine pulses for 1, etc.<snip> So you're in New Zealand :)
IME it's not so much that the literal digits 9, 1, 1 are pulse dialed, but some switches are configured so that a bunch of repeated on/off hook sequences will be treated as an emergency call. I think the idea is, if someone is severely incapacitated, their attempts to pick up the phone will be noticed and acted upon. -- Hunter Fuller (they) Router Jockey VBH Annex B-5 +1 256 824 5331 Office of Information Technology The University of Alabama in Huntsville Network Engineering On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 2:22 PM Brandon Svec <bsvec at teamonesolutions.com> wrote:
That sounds unbelievable. Do you really have evidence that a damaged cable somehow pulse dialed 911? I think the issue is something upstream like what data the PSAP is getting has been spoofed or is just inadvertently incorrect, for example.
Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
?
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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I would think that the ALI database would still need to have the address associated with that phone number in order for the police to call. I'd check the ALI database to make sure the number has been removed if its no longer in service. Otherwise you could be getting fined big time for invalid ALI information. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2021-01-21 02:22 PM, Brandon Svec wrote:
That sounds unbelievable. Do you really have evidence that a damaged cable somehow pulse dialed 911? I think the issue is something upstream like what data the PSAP is getting has been spoofed or is just inadvertently incorrect, for example.
Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
?
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Even without the address, the CNAM would have told them the company name. I will tell the customer that if this happens again, to ask for much more detail from the police. On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 10:45 AM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I would think that the ALI database would still need to have the address associated with that phone number in order for the police to call. I'd check the ALI database to make sure the number has been removed if its no longer in service. Otherwise you could be getting fined big time for invalid ALI information.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2021-01-21 02:22 PM, Brandon Svec wrote:
That sounds unbelievable. Do you really have evidence that a damaged cable somehow pulse dialed 911? I think the issue is something upstream like what data the PSAP is getting has been spoofed or is just inadvertently incorrect, for example.
Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
?
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I would still check the ALI database because you pay monthly for every number in it. If the number is not in service, at the very least you're paying for numbers you're not using. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2021-01-22 12:13 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Even without the address, the CNAM would have told them the company name. I will tell the customer that if this happens again, to ask for much more detail from the police.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 10:45 AM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I would think that the ALI database would still need to have the address associated with that phone number in order for the police to call. I'd check the ALI database to make sure the number has been removed if its no longer in service. Otherwise you could be getting fined big time for invalid ALI information.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2021-01-21 02:22 PM, Brandon Svec wrote:
That sounds unbelievable. Do you really have evidence that a damaged cable somehow pulse dialed 911? I think the issue is something upstream like what data the PSAP is getting has been spoofed or is just inadvertently incorrect, for example.
Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
?
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I believe we may be miscommunicating on one detail... The number in question is not with us, and never has been. We believe the customer abandoned the number long ago. They have been with us 5+ years, and we had never seen that number before. So it's probably abandoned with the old carrier and we can't do anything about it. On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 11:32 AM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I would still check the ALI database because you pay monthly for every number in it. If the number is not in service, at the very least you're paying for numbers you're not using.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2021-01-22 12:13 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Even without the address, the CNAM would have told them the company name. I will tell the customer that if this happens again, to ask for much more detail from the police.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 10:45 AM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I would think that the ALI database would still need to have the address associated with that phone number in order for the police to call. I'd check the ALI database to make sure the number has been removed if its no longer in service. Otherwise you could be getting fined big time for invalid ALI information.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2021-01-21 02:22 PM, Brandon Svec wrote:
That sounds unbelievable. Do you really have evidence that a damaged cable somehow pulse dialed 911? I think the issue is something upstream like what data the PSAP is getting has been spoofed or is just inadvertently incorrect, for example.
Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
?
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 2021-01-22 12:44, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
The number in question is not with us, and never has been.? We believe the customer abandoned the number long ago.? They have been with us 5+ years, and we had never seen that number before.? So it's probably abandoned with the old carrier
I can /totally/ see how that situation would have occurred.
and we can't do anything about it.
You and/or your subscriber should try contacting the PSAP record keeping people.? I can tell you who that would be for me in Minnesota <https://ies911.com/>. Maybe somebody else can chime in with more useful terminology here.
I did miss that piece....thanks for clarifying! Maybe you can find out what SPID is associated with the TN in NPAC and notify that carrier so they can address it internally. I'm sure the PSAP would appreciate the help in making sure calls from unassigned numbers don't clog up their network. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2021-01-22 12:44 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
I believe we may be miscommunicating on one detail... The number in question is not with us, and never has been. We believe the customer abandoned the number long ago. They have been with us 5+ years, and we had never seen that number before. So it's probably abandoned with the old carrier and we can't do anything about it.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 11:32 AM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I would still check the ALI database because you pay monthly for every number in it. If the number is not in service, at the very least you're paying for numbers you're not using.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2021-01-22 12:13 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Even without the address, the CNAM would have told them the company name. I will tell the customer that if this happens again, to ask for much more detail from the police.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 10:45 AM Mary Lou Carey <marylou at backuptelecom.com> wrote:
I would think that the ALI database would still need to have the address associated with that phone number in order for the police to call. I'd check the ALI database to make sure the number has been removed if its no longer in service. Otherwise you could be getting fined big time for invalid ALI information.
MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2021-01-21 02:22 PM, Brandon Svec wrote:
That sounds unbelievable. Do you really have evidence that a damaged cable somehow pulse dialed 911? I think the issue is something upstream like what data the PSAP is getting has been spoofed or is just inadvertently incorrect, for example.
Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
?
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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That does raise the question of if they have other dial tone not managed by Carlos that may have initiated the calls though. Brandon Svec
On Jan 21, 2021, at 12:08 PM, Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
? We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Interesting, here in AZ we just had rain for the first time in a long time. And yeah, Qwest has always left 911-only dialtone in place, which I think they are required to do. On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 1:08 PM Dan Mostert <dan at delhitel.com> wrote:
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
*From:* VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> *On Behalf Of *Carlos Alvarez *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM *To:* voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject:* [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system.
All phone numbers should have an address associated with the phone number in the ALI Database. CNAM database and ALI database are two different databases so just because CNAM is correct doesn't mean the ALI database is. I've run across several instances where the address in the LEC database doesn't match the customer's address because the street name was changed at one point but never updated on the LEC side. When the address in the ALI database doesn't match the address in the MSAG database (which assigns it to the correct PSAP), it can prevent the caller from getting the help they need. I know carriers who do not have the correct address in the ALI database are fined so I'm sure there's some type of charge generated if they have to weed out what's a valid call and what isn't. I would suggest doing a clean-up project on your ALI database to make sure all the TNs not being used in your switch are removed from the ALI database. Also verify that all the TNs you've assigned to customers are in the ALI database with the correct address. MARY LOU CAREY BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2021-01-21 02:08 PM, Dan Mostert wrote:
We?ve run into similar circumstances before with ported in numbers. The losing carrier, either on purpose under the idea of ?left in place dial-tone?, or laziness, leaves a copper PSTN line configured as the customer still. They also don?t maintain their aging copper, so particularly when the cable is wet, short outs and ends up pulse-dialling 911 for them. Same deal- police response for an unresponsive / hang up 911, and a confused/annoyed customer. In our case, the PSAPs involved see this so much from the losing carrier every time it rains, we just educate everyone involved, and the PSAP / public safety have to deal with it. I?m interested in anyone else?s suggestions too.
Dan
From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> On Behalf Of Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:01 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] False 911 calls and old abandoned DID
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
If the only thing tying them to the number is the CNAM, just go update the CNAM maliciously to Qwest? On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:01 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
We have a customer who has received two calls from the police because "they" called 911, but they did not. The CLID shown is NOT one of theirs, but they think it might have been theirs many years ago. The CNAM on that number is their company name. Nobody answers the number, and it's with Qwest. Our logs show no calls to 911 from them.
Any advice on this? It's just two calls at this point, just this week. They've been our customer for over five years, and this number has never been on our system. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kent Adams Vice President of NextGen Network Operations and Development BCM One NextGen Communications Group
participants (12)
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bsvec＠teamonesolutions.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
dan＠delhitel.com -
dfrigen＠wabash.net -
fred＠palner.com -
hf0002+nanog＠uah.edu -
jeffshultz＠sctcweb.com -
kent＠sip.us -
marylou＠backuptelecom.com -
mjohnston＠wiktel.com -
pete＠mac.geek.nz -
ptimmins＠clearrate.com