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We struggled with this and eventually integrated our switch with Speedeon Data. They have a disconnected number scrubbing API. We sell it as an additional feature to customers who are interested in knowing when numbers are disconnected. On Oct 20, 2015, at 7:39 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com<mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com>> wrote: ?Hello, Are there ISUP cause codes for disconnected numbers? And if so, do there exist established mappings for them to SIP? I've never seen this present from any SIP termination gateway. As far as I know, disconnects are expressed in in-band audio service announcements fed backward via early media, followed ?by a rather generic SIP negative final response and reason. However, I'd be remiss not to ask! Thanks! -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Wouldn't is be cause code 1, unallocated number? http://www.dialogic.com/webhelp/img1010/10.5.2/webhelp/General_Reference/def... On Oct 20, 2015, at 21:38, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote: ?Hello, Are there ISUP cause codes for disconnected numbers? And if so, do there exist established mappings for them to SIP? I've never seen this present from any SIP termination gateway. As far as I know, disconnects are expressed in in-band audio service announcements fed backward via early media, followed ?by a rather generic SIP negative final response and reason. However, I'd be remiss not to ask! Thanks! -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I ?would have thought 1 means that the number has no entry in a switch translation table, which is something logically distinct from disconnection. I suppose it depends on how LECs implement the state of affairs to which "disconnected" colloquially refers. ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Peter E Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 22:32 To: Alex Balashov Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP
Cause code 1 (ISUP/ISDN), SIP 404. This is the canonical way. "Disconnected" versus "not in my translations, but on my number block" is a meaningless distinction. Technically you can send a 301/302 I think with a new destination (there's a similar way to do this with ISUP) but it's not widely implemented so number changed referrals typically stay in-band.
On Oct 20, 2015, at 22:43, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
I ?would have thought 1 means that the number has no entry in a switch translation table, which is something logically distinct from disconnection. I suppose it depends on how LECs implement the state of affairs to which "disconnected" colloquially refers. ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Peter E Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 22:32 To: Alex Balashov Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
?Thanks. And I'm guessing the best one can hope for from a SIP termination provider is an ambiguous 404, or, more likely, a 503, which seems to have become misused an opaque, catch-all epithet for any and all completion failures? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
I would consider anything but 404 (at least as long as the terminating LEC send a cause code 1 properly) a glaring bug that I would demand a fix for until I received one, but I have different standards than most (many?) folk it seems. But I have zero tolerance for exotica on my TDM or SIP terminations.
On Oct 20, 2015, at 22:48, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Thanks. And I'm guessing the best one can hope for from a SIP termination provider is an ambiguous 404, or, more likely, a 503, which seems to have become misused an opaque, catch-all epithet for any and all completion failures?
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry.
Agree. 503 has become badly misused. On Oct 20, 2015, at 22:48, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote: ?Thanks. And I'm guessing the best one can hope for from a SIP termination provider is an ambiguous 404, or, more likely, a 503, which seems to have become misused an opaque, catch-all epithet for any and all completion failures? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
We've found 404 to be extremely reliable when received from upstream carriers. It's one of the very few codes that we don't route advance on because we found that calls never compete if someone hands back a 404. JM On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 10:48 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Thanks. And I'm guessing the best one can hope for from a SIP termination provider is an ambiguous 404, or, more likely, a 503, which seems to have become misused an opaque, catch-all epithet for any and all completion failures?
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Can't a 404 sometimes be taken as evidence that an intermediate network element (e.g. a wholesale provider's LCR) doesn't have the destination in route? Or do they just return the all-encompassing 503 in those cases? ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: James Milko Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 13:43 To: Alex Balashov Cc: Paul Timmins; VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP
Not usually an issue for us. Occasionally an intermediate carrier hosted a number at one time and didn't u provision it when they lost the customer, but that's fairly rare these days. So I agree, 404's are fairly reliable for us. On Oct 21, 2015, at 13:46, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote: Can't a 404 sometimes be taken as evidence that an intermediate network element (e.g. a wholesale provider's LCR) doesn't have the destination in route? Or do they just return the all-encompassing 503 in those cases? ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: James Milko Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 13:43 To: Alex Balashov Cc: Paul Timmins; VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I see 404 fairly commonly used to indicate "I don't have a route for this". 6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
"6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally." Yet vendors build hardware that still route advances on a 6XX... (yes, I'm looking at you, Sonus) *grumble* Brooks Bridges | Sr. Voice Services Engineer O1 Communications 5190 Golden Foothill Pkwy El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 office: 916.235.2097 | main: 888.444.1111, Option 2 email: bbridges at o1.com |?web: www.o1.com -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:04 AM To: Peter E Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP I see 404 fairly commonly used to indicate "I don't have a route for this". 6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Well, that's widespread enough that even Kamailio's TM has an option for it: ?http://kamailio.org/docs/modules/4.3.x/modules/tm.html#tm.p.disable_6xx_bloc... -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Brooks Bridges Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 14:14 To: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP "6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally." Yet vendors build hardware that still route advances on a 6XX... (yes, I'm looking at you, Sonus) *grumble* Brooks Bridges | Sr. Voice Services Engineer O1 Communications 5190 Golden Foothill Pkwy El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 office: 916.235.2097 | main: 888.444.1111, Option 2 email: bbridges at o1.com |?web: www.o1.com -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:04 AM To: Peter E Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP I see 404 fairly commonly used to indicate "I don't have a route for this". 6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
If this was true, why does ISUP 1 map to 404 by standard? On Oct 21, 2015 2:13 PM, Brooks Bridges <bbridges at o1.com> wrote:
"6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally."
Yet vendors build hardware that still route advances on a 6XX... (yes, I'm looking at you, Sonus)? *grumble*
Brooks Bridges | Sr. Voice Services Engineer O1 Communications 5190 Golden Foothill Pkwy El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 office: 916.235.2097 | main: 888.444.1111, Option 2 email: bbridges at o1.com |?web: www.o1.com
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:04 AM To: Peter E Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP
I see 404 fairly commonly used to indicate "I don't have a route for this". 6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally.
-- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States
Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Every Sonus switch I've encountered in the wild would always route advance to the next gateway on the trunk group if I returned a 603 to it, and I'm just grousing about that behavior specifically. A 404 feels like it's a little incorrect, as it says " The server has definitive information that the user does not exist at the domain specified in the Request-URI", however in this case it certainly does *exist*, it's just not allocated at this time. From a purely logical perspective, a 603 feels more accurate for a number I own but isn't allocated because I'm declining to take the call ("choosing not to participate") and I know no one else will be able to connect it either since I own that number. I did eventually have to resort to returning a 404 to make it work the way it's supposed to, but it's still annoying. Sonus (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't be route advancing on a status code that explicitly states "do not try any other endpoints". Brooks Bridges | Sr. Voice Services Engineer O1 Communications 5190 Golden Foothill Pkwy El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 office: 916.235.2097 | main: 888.444.1111, Option 2 email: bbridges at o1.com |?web: www.o1.com -----Original Message----- From: Paul Timmins [mailto:paul at timmins.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:06 PM To: Brooks Bridges Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP If this was true, why does ISUP 1 map to 404 by standard? On Oct 21, 2015 2:13 PM, Brooks Bridges <bbridges at o1.com> wrote:
"6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally."
Yet vendors build hardware that still route advances on a 6XX... (yes, I'm looking at you, Sonus)? *grumble*
Brooks Bridges | Sr. Voice Services Engineer O1 Communications 5190 Golden Foothill Pkwy El Dorado Hills, CA 95762 office: 916.235.2097 | main: 888.444.1111, Option 2 email: bbridges at o1.com |?web: www.o1.com
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:04 AM To: Peter E Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP
I see 404 fairly commonly used to indicate "I don't have a route for this". 6xx codes are supposed to be used to indicate definitive knowledge that a number can't be reached by any other means globally.
-- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States
Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
We only give 503's for destinations not in route. If the term provider gives us a 404 we pass that along. -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:47 PM To: James Milko Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP Can't a 404 sometimes be taken as evidence that an intermediate network element (e.g. a wholesale provider's LCR) doesn't have the destination in route? Or do they just return the all-encompassing 503 in those cases? ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: James Milko Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 13:43 To: Alex Balashov Cc: Paul Timmins; VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
For what it's worth, here's the RFC that maps the codes: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3398 On Oct 20, 2015, at 21:38, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote: ?Hello, Are there ISUP cause codes for disconnected numbers? And if so, do there exist established mappings for them to SIP? I've never seen this present from any SIP termination gateway. As far as I know, disconnects are expressed in in-band audio service announcements fed backward via early media, followed ?by a rather generic SIP negative final response and reason. However, I'd be remiss not to ask! Thanks! -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Yeah, looked at that. I meant more from a "de facto" / what vendors actually do perspective, which, as you know, has tenuous attachment to the RFCs. :-) ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Peter E Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 22:55 To: Alex Balashov Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP
What is it that they say? "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." -- Nathan Anderson First Step Internet, LLC nathana at fsr.com -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 7:57 PM To: Peter E Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP Yeah, looked at that. I meant more from a "de facto" / what vendors actually do perspective, which, as you know, has tenuous attachment to the RFCs. :-) ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Peter E Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 22:55 To: Alex Balashov Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Disconnected numbers and SIP _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (8)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
bbridges＠o1.com -
gmina＠connectfirst.com -
jjackson＠aninetworks.net -
jmilko＠bandwidth.com -
nathana＠fsr.com -
paul＠timmins.net -
peeip989＠gmail.com