Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
(This time to the group. Sorry for the dupe, Carlos.) On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 19:22 Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
The Skype for Business system does this where I work. It uses the location of the nearest AP or the location recorded for the jack you're using if you're wired. If neither are available, the SfB application asks the user to enter their location. The analog phones we're switching from only update when an order is processed, but then customers generally have to put in a request for us to do a MAC order. The local PSAP will report to us if they get a 911 call with incorrect name or location info. It's not fool proof and there is plenty of room for errors, but it's not too bad, either. Andt
On 10/23/18 7:36 PM, Andrew Haninger wrote:
(This time to the group. Sorry for the dupe, Carlos.)
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 19:22 Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com <mailto:caalvarez at gmail.com>> wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet?? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address?? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
The Skype for Business system does this where I work. It uses the location of the nearest AP or the location recorded for the jack you're using if you're wired. If neither are available, the SfB application asks the user to enter their location.
The analog phones we're switching from only update when an order is processed, but then customers generally have to put in a request for us to do a MAC order. The local PSAP will report to us if they get a 911 call with incorrect name or location info.
It's not fool proof and there is plenty of room for errors, but it's not too bad, either.
Andt
The best approach I saw was in a research demo at cluecon: https://youtu.be/A8i2psbeYT4 We're still not there in most aspects because either (a) you need to constantly enter and verify information or (b) information will not be up to date. --fred
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now. West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location. You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location. I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things. On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet?? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address?? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
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I've always wondered why VoIP phones don't have a cheap GPS chip in them. Sure, it could raise all sorts of problems from a spoofing perspective, but for valid 911 calls it could come in handy... -A On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:41 PM Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now.
West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location.
You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location.
I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things.
On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
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They don?t work indoors. -- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:07 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
I've always wondered why VoIP phones don't have a cheap GPS chip in them.
Sure, it could raise all sorts of problems from a spoofing perspective, but for valid 911 calls it could come in handy...
-A
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:41 PM Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now.
West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location.
You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location.
I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things.
On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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Depends on the construction. I usually get a good GPS fix on my cell phone indoors. Then again, I don't work in the 4th sub-basement of a skyscraper. ;) -A On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:36 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
They don?t work indoors.
-- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:07 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
I've always wondered why VoIP phones don't have a cheap GPS chip in them.
Sure, it could raise all sorts of problems from a spoofing perspective, but for valid 911 calls it could come in handy...
-A
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:41 PM Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now.
West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location.
You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location.
I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things.
On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
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I don't think anyone wants to implement a YMMV solution especially in a situation with such liability.
On Oct 26, 2018, at 1:48 AM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
Depends on the construction. I usually get a good GPS fix on my cell phone indoors.
Then again, I don't work in the 4th sub-basement of a skyscraper. ;)
-A
On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:36 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
They don?t work indoors.
-- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:07 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
I've always wondered why VoIP phones don't have a cheap GPS chip in them.
Sure, it could raise all sorts of problems from a spoofing perspective, but for valid 911 calls it could come in handy...
-A
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:41 PM Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now.
West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location.
You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location.
I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things.
On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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That?s A-GPS using WiFi and related location databases. A raw, basic, $40 gps module attached to an arduino gets nothing useful in the middle of my standard wood and stucco house. -- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:48 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
Depends on the construction. I usually get a good GPS fix on my cell phone indoors.
Then again, I don't work in the 4th sub-basement of a skyscraper. ;)
-A
On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:36 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
They don?t work indoors.
-- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:07 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
I've always wondered why VoIP phones don't have a cheap GPS chip in them.
Sure, it could raise all sorts of problems from a spoofing perspective, but for valid 911 calls it could come in handy...
-A
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:41 PM Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now.
West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location.
You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location.
I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things.
On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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Location information should be pushed to the phone via DHCP. The DHCP server can get option82 information from the PoE switch port. The phone should then include the information in an INVITE for emergency calls based on its dial plan. The carrier can pass the information through to the NG911 PSAP.
On Oct 26, 2018, at 8:36 AM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
That?s A-GPS using WiFi and related location databases. A raw, basic, $40 gps module attached to an arduino gets nothing useful in the middle of my standard wood and stucco house.
-- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:48 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
Depends on the construction. I usually get a good GPS fix on my cell phone indoors.
Then again, I don't work in the 4th sub-basement of a skyscraper. ;)
-A
On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:36 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
They don?t work indoors.
-- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:07 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
I've always wondered why VoIP phones don't have a cheap GPS chip in them.
Sure, it could raise all sorts of problems from a spoofing perspective, but for valid 911 calls it could come in handy...
-A
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:41 PM Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now.
West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location.
You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location.
I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things.
On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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Now there's an idea that is both easy to implement, and should be reliable. Of course, for home routers then you'd have no 911 location though. But at least at a company level they'd auto-provision. On the other hand we can do that one by IP too. On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 5:45 AM Matthew Crocker <matthew at corp.crocker.com> wrote:
Location information should be pushed to the phone via DHCP. The DHCP server can get option82 information from the PoE switch port. The phone should then include the information in an INVITE for emergency calls based on its dial plan. The carrier can pass the information through to the NG911 PSAP.
On Oct 26, 2018, at 8:36 AM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
That?s A-GPS using WiFi and related location databases. A raw, basic, $40 gps module attached to an arduino gets nothing useful in the middle of my standard wood and stucco house.
-- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:48 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com> wrote:
Depends on the construction. I usually get a good GPS fix on my cell phone indoors.
Then again, I don't work in the 4th sub-basement of a skyscraper. ;)
-A
On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:36 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
They don?t work indoors.
-- Sent from my iPad
On Oct 25, 2018, at 10:07 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps < voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
I've always wondered why VoIP phones don't have a cheap GPS chip in them.
Sure, it could raise all sorts of problems from a spoofing perspective, but for valid 911 calls it could come in handy...
-A
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:41 PM Ryan Delgrosso < ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now.
West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location.
You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location.
I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things.
On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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GPS doesn't function particularly well indoors for a variety of technical reasons.
On Oct 26, 2018, at 1:07 AM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org> wrote:
I've always wondered why VoIP phones don't have a cheap GPS chip in them.
Sure, it could raise all sorts of problems from a spoofing perspective, but for valid 911 calls it could come in handy...
-A
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:41 PM Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote:
Automatic, nope. Psuedo-auto im looking at it now.
West supports sending custom headers to indicate a phones location inside a building to provide additional routing info but nothing using geo-location.
You could leverage this to have phones send custom headers based on network location.
I have not seen anything using geo-ip or GPS primarily because most IP handsets dont to those things.
On 10/23/2018 4:21 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Is anyone doing this yet? The ability to detect the location of a phone and automatically update the 911 address? Yes, I realize it's a difficult if not impossible thing, yet thought I'd ask since a customer asked me.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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participants (7)
-
aaron＠heyaaron.com -
ahaning＠gmail.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
fred＠palner.com -
matthew＠corp.crocker.com -
nicksten＠gmail.com -
ryandelgrosso＠gmail.com