Has any more worked with products similar to http://www.sonus.net/products/session-border-controllers/virtualized-sbc-swe What has your experience been? Cheers Ryan
So far the only things keeping me from abandoning hardware SBC's are crypto and transcoding. NFV is unquestionably the way forward. On 4/6/2016 6:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey wrote:
Has any more worked with products similar to http://www.sonus.net/products/session-border-controllers/virtualized-sbc-swe
What has your experience been?
Cheers Ryan
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
I want to build an appliance that we would deploy on the customer perm that would run on Hyper-V and run 4 Windows VM and a Virtualized SBC. -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:45 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Hi Ryan We at Sangoma run our VM SBC and Hybrid VM SBCs on all virtualization platforms. We are seeing a lot of interest in "NFV" to use the buzz word. VM SBC is pure software. - SBC features minus transcoding. - Managed via REST API Hybrid VM SBC - VM SBC + Ethernet DSP pcie card gives you VM with transcoding. Best of both worlds. :) We run a Hyper-V Hybrid VM SBC in our production Lync /Skype for business deployments. Recently we did Hyper-V benchmarks -no transcoding and was shocked with the quality and performance of Hyper-V. I would be interested to hear what your crypto / transcoding / SBC requirements are. We could run some scenario benchmarking in our lab and publish what is possible with today's VMs. Good luck. Nenad Corbic VP Engineering Sangoma Technologies
On Apr 6, 2016, at 9:57 PM, Ryan Finnesey <ryan at finnesey.com> wrote:
I want to build an appliance that we would deploy on the customer perm that would run on Hyper-V and run 4 Windows VM and a Virtualized SBC.
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:45 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this?
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement. Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only problem is most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part and are still sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV. On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this?
That's just it. SBCs are a terrible example of "NFV" because SBCs do not actually perform a "network function" of the sort that begs to be decoupled and abstracted in the way that NFV and SDN envisions, like software-defined switches and routers. The idea that the SBC is a kind of "voice firewall" is a fiction pushed by the marketing departments of SBC vendors. What is an SBC? It's a SIP B2BUA with some sort of provisioning and management interface. If you're lucky, there are some ASICs or kernel-mode crypto, transcoding and/or packet forwarding functions. It's an application-layer construct, a giant softphone touted as a condom that must go over innocent and vulnerable "softswitches". It's not a "network" element, but it looks much better on Visio diagrams to depict it as one. On 04/06/2016 09:58 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement.
Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only problem is most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part and are still sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV.
On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this?
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
I'm not sure I share your narrow view of what an SBC is and the role it plays in modern network architecture. There is absolutely a subset of uses for an SBC that fit perfectly into the box you have outlined but in the broader sense it is a demarcation and control point between network segments where you can inject interworking and business logic. For example: * Crypto offload - softswitches spending cycles on media crypto is wasteful and occasionally not possible * Transcoding - G711 is a anchor we wear around our necks, and the lack of a SINGLE clear successor means transcoding is a necessity, I wont even open the can of worms that is faxing but as im sure anyone who has had the displeasure of troubleshooting a T38 negotiation with a rogue media gateway 2 carrier hops from you can tell you, just being able to transcode and make both sides happy is the path to a long and serene life as a network operator. http://i.imgur.com/BB4T3RW.png * CALEA taps * IPV4/IPV6 interworking - to my knowledge most of the CPE and commercial elements havent fully gotten on the V6 bandwagon but anyone dealing with mobile voice knows this reality * Media control / monitoring - MOS monitoring / QOS enforcement * Security services - sanitizing SIP traffic so you dont spend softswitch cycles on answering free-floating internet hostility * Abstraction and load balancing * Fraud mitigation - I have written whole papers on this so Ill save the pontification on this topic And that is beyond the massive subset of problems I have solved using the SBC as a swiss army knife to bludgeon success into scenarios that would otherwise be at an impasse because the elements on either side of it did not belong to me or were not able to have their native behavior altered for various rea$on$. An SBC is the Thneed of the modern communications network https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7XA0h6HeOw On 4/6/2016 7:16 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
That's just it. SBCs are a terrible example of "NFV" because SBCs do not actually perform a "network function" of the sort that begs to be decoupled and abstracted in the way that NFV and SDN envisions, like software-defined switches and routers. The idea that the SBC is a kind of "voice firewall" is a fiction pushed by the marketing departments of SBC vendors.
What is an SBC? It's a SIP B2BUA with some sort of provisioning and management interface. If you're lucky, there are some ASICs or kernel-mode crypto, transcoding and/or packet forwarding functions. It's an application-layer construct, a giant softphone touted as a condom that must go over innocent and vulnerable "softswitches". It's not a "network" element, but it looks much better on Visio diagrams to depict it as one.
On 04/06/2016 09:58 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement.
Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only problem is most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part and are still sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV.
On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this?
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
Absolutely, at >= Layer 5. If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do. Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm. -- Alex -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
It is unfortunately the element in the network with the shortest service lifecycle so the most likely to come under scrutiny for replacement. For ex my original core metaswitch I recently phased out survived 3 generations of SBC's. Each generation came at not insignificant hardware cost. While you say it may be a poor standard bearer it is a lever by which solution vendors can shoe-horn their whole NFV ecosystem into the carrier from the edge inward with some promise of a future-proofed purchase (in the form of licensing). On 4/6/2016 8:08 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.
If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do.
Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.
-- Alex
So, future-proof purchasing because the licence is for the essential content of the software rather than a superficially branded commodity server = NFV? That just sounds like V.? There's not a single thing SBCs do that can be described as a network function in need of software generalisation. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 1447?Peachtree?Street?NE,?Suite?700 Atlanta,?GA?30309 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
my point was that they, of all
things, are a poor standard
bearer for the NFV marketing-
gasm.
With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV marketing-gasm (LOL). On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.
If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do.
Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.
-- Alex
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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If it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if there's an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its presence, including management and licensing, without having to configure all that, then it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are actually doing this, that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear people's options on it). They may just be doing V with a long-term vision of NFV, I don't know. On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
No. That's not NFV. That's just... V.
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. *From: *Pete Eisengrein *Sent: *Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26 *Cc: *voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
my point was that they, of all
things, are a poor standard
bearer for the NFV marketing-
gasm.
With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV marketing-gasm (LOL).
On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.
If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do.
Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.
-- Alex
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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FWIW, I?ve used Sansay?s virtualized SBC ? they provide a hardware appliance as well, which we are using in production, currently we are using their virtualized SBC in QA but am very happy with it. With regard to licensing, Sansay does separate itself from most of the competition by offering a network-based licensing solution (i.e. pay for total licenses across your network, not per SBC). This is great if you have a distributed network where subscribers ?follow the sun? to some degree. Dave Horton President, Beachdog Networks daveh at beachdognet.com +1 508 308 4809 On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote: Management and licencing are rather ancillary to any discussion of NFs. -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry. From: Pete Eisengrein Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 08:26 To: Alex Balashov Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC If it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if there's an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its presence, including management and licensing, without having to configure all that, then it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are actually doing this, that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear people's options on it). They may just be doing V with a long-term vision of NFV, I don't know. On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com>> wrote: No. That's not NFV. That's just... V. -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 <tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 <tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ <http://www.evaristesys.com/>, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ <http://www.csrpswitch.com/> Sent from my BlackBerry. From: Pete Eisengrein Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26 Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
my point was that they, of all
things, are a poor standard
bearer for the NFV marketing-
gasm.
With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV marketing-gasm (LOL). On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com>> wrote: On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote: an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network segments where you can inject interworking and business logic. Absolutely, at >= Layer 5. If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do. Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm. -- Alex -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 <tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 <tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ <http://www.evaristesys.com/>, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ <http://www.csrpswitch.com/> _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops <https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops> _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
NFV is all about containers and micro services. It is unix all over again but in the cloud. Small containerized functions that do a specific task. Spun up in the cloud and linked together by an orchestration overlay. Personally I think it is a good thing ? Matthew Crocker President - Crocker Communications, Inc. Managing Partner - Crocker Telecommunications, LLC E: matthew at corp.crocker.com E: matthew at crocker.com
On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
Management and licencing are rather ancillary to any discussion of NFs.
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. From: Pete Eisengrein Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 08:26 To: Alex Balashov Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
If it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if there's an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its presence, including management and licensing, without having to configure all that, then it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are actually doing this, that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear people's options on it). They may just be doing V with a long-term vision of NFV, I don't know.
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com>> wrote: No. That's not NFV. That's just... V.
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 <tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 <tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ <http://www.evaristesys.com/>, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ <http://www.csrpswitch.com/>
Sent from my BlackBerry. From: Pete Eisengrein Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26 Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
my point was that they, of all
things, are a poor standard
bearer for the NFV marketing-
gasm.
With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV marketing-gasm (LOL).
On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com>> wrote: On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.
If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do.
Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.
-- Alex
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 <tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 <tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ <http://www.evaristesys.com/>, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ <http://www.csrpswitch.com/> _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops <https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops>
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
In the early days of using the word "cloud," I ran into a seller of such things who was trying to explain it to me as if I was new to computing. I said, "Yeah, I get it, just like when I used to admin a System/36 and customers would pay for their compute time and storage. Of course, I'm old, and he'd never heard of a System/36. Why did the PC revolution happen at all, I often wonder. On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Matthew Crocker <matthew at corp.crocker.com> wrote:
NFV is all about containers and micro services. It is unix all over again but in the cloud. Small containerized functions that do a specific task. Spun up in the cloud and linked together by an orchestration overlay. Personally I think it is a good thing
?
Matthew Crocker President - Crocker Communications, Inc. Managing Partner - Crocker Telecommunications, LLC E: matthew at corp.crocker.com E: matthew at crocker.com
On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
Management and licencing are rather ancillary to any discussion of NFs.
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. *From: *Pete Eisengrein *Sent: *Thursday, April 7, 2016 08:26 *To: *Alex Balashov *Cc: *voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
If it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if there's an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its presence, including management and licensing, without having to configure all that, then it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are actually doing this, that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear people's options on it). They may just be doing V with a long-term vision of NFV, I don't know.
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
No. That's not NFV. That's just... V.
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. *From: *Pete Eisengrein *Sent: *Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26 *Cc: *voiceops at voiceops.org *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
my point was that they, of all
things, are a poor standard
bearer for the NFV marketing-
gasm.
With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV marketing-gasm (LOL).
On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com
wrote:
On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.
If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do.
Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.
-- Alex
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
?Right, it's an on-premise Cloud SBCaaS. Innovation knows no bounds. ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 1447?Peachtree?Street?NE,?Suite?700 Atlanta,?GA?30309 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Carlos Alvarez Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 11:03 To: voiceops Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
On 04/07/2016 10:56 AM, Matthew Crocker wrote:
NFV is all about containers and micro services. It is unix all over again but in the cloud. Small containerized functions that do a specific task. Spun up in the cloud and linked together by an orchestration overlay. Personally I think it is a good thing
"in the cloud" is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Building anything that is only cloud based, for your independent business, is like building a solution for nest using resolv. Fred Posner The Palner Group, Inc. http://www.palner.com (web)
?in the cloud? can also mean a private cloud. You don?t have to use Amazon/MS/Google/Cisco/? to benefit from ?cloud? technology. The point is, decoupling from hardware a set of services that can then be spun up quickly to meet on demand need. Spinning up a Broadworks media server to handle a flood of conference calling is not an easy task. It can be and will be in the future though. ? Matthew Crocker President - Crocker Communications, Inc. Managing Partner - Crocker Telecommunications, LLC E: matthew at corp.crocker.com E: matthew at crocker.com
On Apr 7, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Fred Posner <fred at palner.com> wrote:
On 04/07/2016 10:56 AM, Matthew Crocker wrote:
NFV is all about containers and micro services. It is unix all over again but in the cloud. Small containerized functions that do a specific task. Spun up in the cloud and linked together by an orchestration overlay. Personally I think it is a good thing
"in the cloud" is like fingernails on a chalkboard.
Building anything that is only cloud based, for your independent business, is like building a solution for nest using resolv.
Fred Posner The Palner Group, Inc. http://www.palner.com (web) _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Matthew, Everywhere else in IT, that's called: "virtualising applications and services", i.e. putting in VMs or containers that which remains to be put there. Orchestration and management tools go hand-in-hand with that, depending on the technology stack in play. The distinctiveness of _network function_ virtualisation lies in something rather different. It has to do with generalising and rendering more generic the functions that were previously performed by boxes with specific interfaces and ASICs. ?You never plugged DS3s into an SBC, so there's nothing to virtualise apart from simply running its code somewhere else, i.e. on your own PC (or hypervisor on PC) instead of a PC that says Acme Packet or Broadsoft on the box. That's not revolutionary, and it's not NFV. The term has real meaning, but as usual has been beaten silly by marketing and trade press abuse. ?NFV does not mean "in the Cloud, but concerning things we didn't used to market as being runnable standalone before".? So, Sansay didn't want to sell the software without forcing you to buy the PC chassis that says Sansay on it. Now they changed their mind and you can do that. That's not innovative, that's no brilliant insight to be "onto", and it sure as hell isn't NFV. -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447?Peachtree?Street?NE,?Suite?700 Atlanta,?GA?30309 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
Frafos have been distributing their SBC as a downloadable VM image since at least 2013. I guess that makes them industry Visionaries and Unified Communications Thought Leaders since other folks are just coming to this realisation now. But they clearly lack the insight to see that a moderately interesting 3-minute conversation topic can, through marketing alchemy, be turned into a multibillion dollar, multi-year #Trend. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 1447?Peachtree?Street?NE,?Suite?700 Atlanta,?GA?30309 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
Agree regarding NFV. It's a pretty big topic. Oracle (Acme) is playing catch-up but also has a solution now. Haven't played with it (or Somus, Sansay) yet so I can't render an opinion. On Apr 6, 2016, at 21:58, Ryan Delgrosso <ryandelgrosso at gmail.com> wrote: They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement. Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only problem is most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part and are still sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV.
On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote: So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this?
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LOL! +1 Reminds me of Larry Ellison's now infamous rant against the use of the "nonsense" marketing term "cloud computing". "All that 'cloud' is is computers in a network, in terms of technology. Now in terms of *business model*, you can say 'oh, it's rental', and this is also very interesting, this notion of rental. All Salesforce.com was, before they were 'cloud computing', they were, uh, software-as-a-service [SaaS]. And then they became 'cloud computing', because SaaS...well, it's the same reason Chanel last year was fuchsia, and this year it's kind of puce. I mean, our industry is so bizarre: they just change a term, and they think they've invented technology!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmrxN3GWHpM#t=2685 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmrxN3GWHpM#t=4470 "That's gold, Jerry! Gold!" -- Nathan -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 6:45 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Indeed. As usual, it's very seldom about whether words arranged in a certain order result in useful meaning. Marketing into the Bellhead CxO suite is a kind of meme laundering operation: "what can of horseshit can we seed into golf course and country club conversations?" Apparently NFV? is the latest thing the barnacles are pumping out. Somewhere, behind hundreds of directors, senior managers and channel partner liaisons, there's a shared cube in the back with three poor H-1Bs who are all going, "Uh, dude, we've been doing this since 2004. Is that what they're calling it now?" -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 1447?Peachtree?Street?NE,?Suite?700 Atlanta,?GA?30309 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
You didn't just seriously say that? Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
Indeed. As usual, it's very seldom about whether words arranged in a certain order result in useful meaning. Marketing into the Bellhead CxO suite is a kind of meme laundering operation: "what can of horseshit can we seed into golf course and country club conversations?"
Apparently NFV? is the latest thing the barnacles are pumping out. Somewhere, behind hundreds of directors, senior managers and channel partner liaisons, there's a shared cube in the back with three poor H-1Bs who are all going, "Uh, dude, we've been doing this since 2004. Is that what they're calling it now?"
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I most certainly did. Think about how distributed softswitch assemblies work: media gateway separated from signalling agent by an H.248/MEGACO tentacle over a private Ethernet network, all racked together because the vendor says. Now the vendor says: "Let's make a policy decision ?to allow the customer to run this stuff on their own (or our supplied) virtualisation silo." And they market it as the NFV revolution. There is actual NFV, and it's quite interesting. But "run our software in a VM" is not what that is.? It's another entrant to the bullshit parade. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 1447?Peachtree?Street?NE,?Suite?700 Atlanta,?GA?30309 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Anthony Orlando Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 20:40 To: Alex Balashov Cc: Nathan Anderson; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC You didn't just seriously say that? Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
Indeed. As usual, it's very seldom about whether words arranged in a certain order result in useful meaning. Marketing into the Bellhead CxO suite is a kind of meme laundering operation: "what can of horseshit can we seed into golf course and country club conversations?"
Apparently NFV? is the latest thing the barnacles are pumping out. Somewhere, behind hundreds of directors, senior managers and channel partner liaisons, there's a shared cube in the back with three poor H-1Bs who are all going, "Uh, dude, we've been doing this since 2004. Is that what they're calling it now?"
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700 Atlanta, GA 30309 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Since this thread pretty much immediately devolved into complaining about the way marketing has worked for the last 100 years. Does anyone have any actual experience? I'm pretty interested in anyone who has tried to run a Sonus SWe in AWS at the moment. If you tried transcoding I'm curious on how that worked out. JM On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey <ryan at finnesey.com> wrote:
Has any more worked with products similar to http://www.sonus.net/products/session-border-controllers/virtualized-sbc-swe
What has your experience been?
Cheers Ryan
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I've run the Sonus SWe in a lab environment and it works quite well. Everything is exactly the same as the SBC5/7xxx platform minus the hardware specific pieces (like reboot commands). It does not have transcoding ability, however, and we have a requirement to do a lot of that with our SBCs. So if you can get by without needing to do transcoding at that point in your network, it can work well.
On Apr 8, 2016, at 10:31 AM, James Milko <jmilko at bandwidth.com> wrote:
Since this thread pretty much immediately devolved into complaining about the way marketing has worked for the last 100 years.
Does anyone have any actual experience? I'm pretty interested in anyone who has tried to run a Sonus SWe in AWS at the moment. If you tried transcoding I'm curious on how that worked out.
JM
On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey <ryan at finnesey.com> wrote: Has any more worked with products similar to http://www.sonus.net/products/session-border-controllers/virtualized-sbc-swe
What has your experience been?
Cheers Ryan
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
?One of the features of the way marketing has worked for the last hundred years is that every once in a while somebody will call BS when the needle gets too high with folks parroting vendor whitepapers and collateral.? They are largely ignored, have little no material impact on the planet or the world, and life goes on--they're no match for billion-dollar snowjob budgets. And yet it would be fair to say that piercing the fog is a periodically necessary activity that provides a certain strategic balance, even if a lopsided ones. I was certainly around for the "Ha? Linux? It is not a serious OS for the enterprise." discourse back in the day. FOSS acquires market share somehow. By and large, it's by sticking to the fundamentals. ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 1447?Peachtree?Street?NE,?Suite?700 Atlanta,?GA?30309 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: James Milko Sent: Friday, April 8, 2016 11:32 To: Ryan Finnesey Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
participants (15)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
avorlando＠yahoo.com -
brandon＠kamikos.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
calvin.ellison＠voxox.com -
daveh＠beachdognet.com -
fred＠palner.com -
jmilko＠bandwidth.com -
matthew＠corp.crocker.com -
nathana＠fsr.com -
ncorbic＠sangoma.com -
peeip989＠gmail.com -
ryan＠finnesey.com -
ryandelgrosso＠gmail.com -
zavoid＠gmail.com