Rephrased Question: 100+ seat MIGRATIONS to VoIP
Hi all, Well, wonderful responses, thanks. I love this list. Unfortunately it appears I've not asked the right question for what I really wanted to know. If ya'all are willing to entertain me on this, I'd love some assistance. We are working with a firm who is trying to move many high-volume (think lawyers offices, doctors offices, etc.) 100+ seat offices from KEY systems (BLFs, Line keys, All-set paging, Intercom, one-touch transfer, the works) to VoIP. We are trying to advise them on how to sell into their market the most effectively, but we are running into issues where the clients expect the new system to act like the old system. This ranges from quality to feature set. I'm trying to figure out how others have handled this. Specifically, how did you monitor and ensure quality on untested / new VoIP circuits that hadn't been used for VoIP previously? What features did you just say "no, sorry, can't do via VoIP in exactly the same way"? Any? What phones did you sell them that they liked/disliked? Etc. Most of the replies I got to my other email were related to "we moved someone from Cisco UC to VoIP with no issue" which made me realize I'm asking the question incorrectly. Thanks again, Darren
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Darren Schreiber <d at d-man.org> wrote:
Specifically, how did you monitor and ensure quality on untested / new VoIP circuits that hadn't been used for VoIP previously?
So you're going to deploy on an uncontrolled, wild internet connection and want to know how to test it?
What features did you just say "no, sorry, can't do via VoIP in exactly the same way"? Any?
"Via VoIP" is not valid. You can't have some key system features on a PBX of any kind is how it should be stated. You are getting PBX features such as "x" but you lose key system features such as "y" in exchange. But in many cases you can replicate key system features. I explain to customers that they are moving from a small-business product called a key system to an enterprise product called a PBX. Give them a few reasons why that's good, and just explain that if there are missing features we will find a way to either code them or teach them work-arounds (the code them part is why I use Asterisk).
What phones did you sell them that they liked/disliked?
Cisco SPA series are universally well received. I haven't run into phones they didn't like, but we excluded a lot of the junky phones ourselves in testing.
Etc.
No reason to treat it like VoIP versus everything else on the user side. It's just a new high-end PBX. On the data side, you may want to re-think the "use whatever is there" philosophy for 100+ deployments. -- Carlos Alvarez TelEvolve 602-889-3003
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schreiber" <d at d-man.org> To: VoiceOps at voiceops.org Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 12:37:32 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Rephrased Question: 100+ seat MIGRATIONS to VoIP
Hi all, Well, wonderful responses, thanks. I love this list.
Unfortunately it appears I've not asked the right question for what I really wanted to know. If ya'all are willing to entertain me on this, I'd love some assistance.
We are working with a firm who is trying to move many high-volume (think lawyers offices, doctors offices, etc.) 100+ seat offices from KEY systems (BLFs, Line keys, All-set paging, Intercom, one-touch transfer, the works) to VoIP. We are trying to advise them on how to sell into their market the most effectively, but we are running into issues where the clients expect the new system to act like the old system. This ranges from quality to feature set. I'm trying to figure out how others have handled this. These are all just features from your SIP feature server. Our Broadworks system can provide all of the features mentioned above, or a decent work around that we can train the customer. Typically on deployment we get some push back because it is different. A quick training session with the end user and the problems go away. 'You used to press transfer, extension, transfer. Now you press transfer, extension and hang up' kinda stuff.
Specifically, how did you monitor and ensure quality on untested / new VoIP circuits that hadn't been used for VoIP previously? What features did you just say "no, sorry, can't do via VoIP in exactly the same way"? Any? I have yet to find a feature in a 10 year old PBX/Key system that we can't replicate or replace.
Simple fact, if they are replacing their key system with a PBX they will have to adjust to some feature changes. HostedPBX systems provide the same features as premise based PBX system. We keep all of our big 100+ seat customers 'OnNet' and manage the QoS through the entire process. Separate bandwidth, firewalls,VLANs for VoIP.
What phones did you sell them that they liked/disliked? Polycom 335,550,650 are our primary phones The new Polycom VVX500 is awesome.
Linksys/Cisco SPA come in a close second. Lawyers & Doctors want to feel important, give them a high quality phone. Make sure the doctor/partner has a better phone than the receptionist and life is good. The biggest mistake I made was giving a CEO a Polycom 335 and his secretary a 650. She needed the 650, he didn't. I quickly replaced his 335 with a 650 and 'Everything works great now!'
Etc.
Most of the replies I got to my other email were related to "we moved someone from Cisco UC to VoIP with no issue" which made me realize I'm asking the question incorrectly.
Thanks again, Darren
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 2/1/12 9:37 AM, Darren Schreiber wrote:
We are working with a firm who is trying to move many high-volume (think lawyers offices, doctors offices, etc.) 100+ seat offices from KEY systems (BLFs, Line keys, All-set paging, Intercom, one-touch transfer, the works) to VoIP. We are trying to advise them on how to sell into their market the most effectively, but we are running into issues where the clients expect the new system to act like the old system. This ranges from quality to feature set. I'm trying to figure out how others have handled this.
All-set paging can be a tough one with the PBX remote opening 100+ audio streams. Many offices can do without it and actually find it to be a more pleasant office without it. Overhead speakers with a local amplifier are one solution. There are SIP-based paging speakers out there and a couple of specialized vendors for local all-set paging, some using multicast. In one case we deployed a local Asterisk on a separate button just for paging. Intercom isn't a problem. Same operation for intercom as calling outside. Minimal training. In almost all cases we have dropped the "9 for outside" dialplan and gone with timeouts and the SEND button. People are used to this now due to cell phones. Reception console handles BLFs and gives much more. After training the receptionists love it. The one call handling operation that key systems do well that PBXs don't seems to be able to handle is in a warehouse or retail store type of operation. Take an auto parts store for example. A call comes in on line 3, caller wants to know if a part is in stock. Employee answers the call at the counter, puts it on hold, walks to the back of the store, finds the part, walks to the phone in the back of the store and pushes the blinking button to resume the call. Yes, there is call park and the like but it's a major hassle in this type of situation. This is the one feature that is tough to get around if you have a customer who uses it. "I just want to put a call on hold here and pick it up there! What is so hard about that? It's been a common feature on every phone system we've had for the last 50 years!" Things that they like, especially in larger offices, are individual DIDs and the advanced messaging features. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
Aastra phones and some Polycom phones on 4.x software can do multicast paging which works quite well. Also, BLA/SLA lines work exactly as described for your second scenario. I've done this in Sylantro, Broadworks, and Metaswitch. --- Brandon P. Buckner Switching Technician / VoIP Admin Iowa Network Services brandonb at netins.com On 2/1/12 12:25 AM, Jay Hennigan wrote: All-set paging can be a tough one with the PBX remote opening 100+ audio streams. Many offices can do without it and actually find it to be a more pleasant office without it. Overhead speakers with a local amplifier are one solution. There are SIP-based paging speakers out there and a couple of specialized vendors for local all-set paging, some using multicast. In one case we deployed a local Asterisk on a separate button just for paging. The one call handling operation that key systems do well that PBXs don't seems to be able to handle is in a warehouse or retail store type of operation. Take an auto parts store for example. A call comes in on line 3, caller wants to know if a part is in stock. Employee answers the call at the counter, puts it on hold, walks to the back of the store, finds the part, walks to the phone in the back of the store and pushes the blinking button to resume the call.
Key system mode is pretty east to do on Broadworks...use series completion -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 1:25 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rephrased Question: 100+ seat MIGRATIONS to VoIP On 2/1/12 9:37 AM, Darren Schreiber wrote:
We are working with a firm who is trying to move many high-volume (think lawyers offices, doctors offices, etc.) 100+ seat offices from KEY systems (BLFs, Line keys, All-set paging, Intercom, one-touch transfer, the works) to VoIP. We are trying to advise them on how to sell into their market the most effectively, but we are running into issues where the clients expect the new system to act like the old system. This ranges from quality to feature set. I'm trying to figure out how others have handled this.
All-set paging can be a tough one with the PBX remote opening 100+ audio streams. Many offices can do without it and actually find it to be a more pleasant office without it. Overhead speakers with a local amplifier are one solution. There are SIP-based paging speakers out there and a couple of specialized vendors for local all-set paging, some using multicast. In one case we deployed a local Asterisk on a separate button just for paging. Intercom isn't a problem. Same operation for intercom as calling outside. Minimal training. In almost all cases we have dropped the "9 for outside" dialplan and gone with timeouts and the SEND button. People are used to this now due to cell phones. Reception console handles BLFs and gives much more. After training the receptionists love it. The one call handling operation that key systems do well that PBXs don't seems to be able to handle is in a warehouse or retail store type of operation. Take an auto parts store for example. A call comes in on line 3, caller wants to know if a part is in stock. Employee answers the call at the counter, puts it on hold, walks to the back of the store, finds the part, walks to the phone in the back of the store and pushes the blinking button to resume the call. Yes, there is call park and the like but it's a major hassle in this type of situation. This is the one feature that is tough to get around if you have a customer who uses it. "I just want to put a call on hold here and pick it up there! What is so hard about that? It's been a common feature on every phone system we've had for the last 50 years!" Things that they like, especially in larger offices, are individual DIDs and the advanced messaging features. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 1 Feb 2012, at 17:37, Darren Schreiber wrote:
We are working with a firm who is trying to move many high-volume (think lawyers offices, doctors offices, etc.) 100+ seat offices from KEY systems (BLFs, Line keys, All-set paging, Intercom, one-touch transfer, the works) to VoIP. We are trying to advise them on how to sell into their market the most effectively, but we are running into issues where the clients expect the new system to act like the old system. This ranges from quality to feature set. I'm trying to figure out how others have handled this.
If the primary consideration is that the system has to be like the old one. Then you are lost. The correct solution is the old one. Don't change it. Connect some SIP trunks and keep quiet. If the problem is that the old system isn't meeting needs, then you need to find out what they do need. And then get buy in from the users. e.g - if receptionists can press a hot blind transfer button in the sales hunt group, they will learn to work a new phone. Because they answer lots of calls which should go to sales and you made their life easy. If you dump the system in, they will want the key system features because they want the lights to find who is free in the sales department to take the call. You are on the back foot from day one. Trying to play catchup with user requirements. Or just please the boss by putting in DDI or Work group direct numbers in so the receptionist isn't taking calls. A proper customer requirements analysis is what is required. Most VoIP companies presume all phone systems are simple. They also seem scared to bill the customer for installation planning time. Tim
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Tim Bray <tim at kooky.org> wrote:
If the primary consideration is that the system has to be like the old one. Then you are lost. The correct solution is the old one. Don't change it. Connect some SIP trunks and keep quiet.
Indeed.
If you dump the system in, they will want the key system features because they want the lights to find who is free in the sales department to take the call. You are on the back foot from day one. Trying to play catchup with user requirements.
Never let users drive requirements that are process oriented, force them to give results and you drive the process.
A proper customer requirements analysis is what is required. Most VoIP companies presume all phone systems are simple. They also seem scared to bill the customer for installation planning time.
Our business is very consultative (we don't charge for it up front), and it results in customers who can't leave us. One said he got an offer for "the same and more features" for a lot less money, so I said goodbye. He called the day before porting to have us block the port since the other company couldn't deliver half of what we did. Be different, even if you think the customer doesn't want the hassle. Look at the end result, not the process, as the goal. -- Carlos Alvarez TelEvolve 602-889-3003
People in the organization may have liked the old phone system, but because of system failure or lack of support or the need for new features the old one is not a viable option. A communication solutions provider would be sticking their head in the sand if they ignore the negativity of some folks because it's possible that some of the processes in the new aren't as straight forward or easy to use as the new. I think it's best to be sympathetic and help them through the transition, i.e. "Sorry that feature X isn't working like you were used to. I'd be happy to show you how this feature works on your new phone system..." Frank -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Tim Bray Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:51 PM To: Darren Schreiber Cc: VoiceOps at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rephrased Question: 100+ seat MIGRATIONS to VoIP On 1 Feb 2012, at 17:37, Darren Schreiber wrote:
We are working with a firm who is trying to move many high-volume
(think lawyers offices, doctors offices, etc.) 100+ seat offices from KEY systems (BLFs, Line keys, All-set paging, Intercom, one-touch transfer, the works) to VoIP. We are trying to advise them on how to sell into their market the most effectively, but we are running into issues where the clients expect the new system to act like the old system. This ranges from quality to feature set. I'm trying to figure out how others have handled this.
If the primary consideration is that the system has to be like the old one. Then you are lost. The correct solution is the old one. Don't change it. Connect some SIP trunks and keep quiet. If the problem is that the old system isn't meeting needs, then you need to find out what they do need. And then get buy in from the users. e.g - if receptionists can press a hot blind transfer button in the sales hunt group, they will learn to work a new phone. Because they answer lots of calls which should go to sales and you made their life easy. If you dump the system in, they will want the key system features because they want the lights to find who is free in the sales department to take the call. You are on the back foot from day one. Trying to play catchup with user requirements. Or just please the boss by putting in DDI or Work group direct numbers in so the receptionist isn't taking calls. A proper customer requirements analysis is what is required. Most VoIP companies presume all phone systems are simple. They also seem scared to bill the customer for installation planning time. Tim _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (8)
-
BrandonB＠netins.com -
carlos＠televolve.com -
d＠d-man.org -
frnkblk＠iname.com -
jay＠west.net -
matthew＠corp.crocker.com -
tim＠kooky.org -
twolf＠unifiedtechnologies.com