Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M. So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas. If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
Depending on your switch you should be able to build a profile for the customer and reject calls going to cell phone LRN providers. Personally, I wouldn?t take on the liability of guaranteeing their auto-dialer only calls landlines. You would end up being sued if you make a mistake. IMHO, let them manually dial or find a list scrubbing company that actually works. ? Matthew Crocker President - Crocker Communications, Inc. Managing Partner - Crocker Telecommunications, LLC E: matthew at corp.crocker.com E: matthew at crocker.com
On Aug 18, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Getting an LRN is easy. The real question is, is there a reliable data source to map LRN -> {wireless,RBOC,etc}? I think this data is in the LERG, but the LERG is overkill... -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
We use the http://www.data24-7.com/carrier24-7.php We use the product to look up carrier names, the returned data includes wireless or landline information. I'm not affiliated with them. On 8/18/2015 16:30, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
We've used DNC.com in the past which gets data from http://www.tcpacompliance.us/. That's run by Neustar directly and: Specifically, qualified users can now subscribe and receive the most up-to-date files (the Intermodal Ported Telephone Number Identification Service) consisting of nationwide ported telephone numbers that have been moved from wire line to wireless and vice versa, enabling users to avoid using auto-dialers or pre-recorded messages to call wireless numbers. They will also offer an indemnification clause if you use their service and the number was on the list to protect you. Prices were pretty reasonable and they both bulk interfaces and real time. On 08/18/2015 03:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from. Kidd On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day.? This product is available now and has been for a while.? This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from. Kidd On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones.? Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate.? There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all.? For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M. So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer.? The only thing I can think of is some sort of?LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response.? One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony.? Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas. If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options.? I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops -- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
NPAC has a service type field that indicates wireless/wireline. That doesn't solve for native numbers though since they won't have LRN data since they don't have LRNs. I don't remember offhand if LERG has a wireless/wireline indication for a given [A]OCN or block. James Milko Architect, Network Engineering 900 Main Campus Drive Raleigh, NC 27606 Bandwidth <http://www.bandwidth.com/business/> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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It could be anytime the *LEC still has the entire A block. As far as how common it is I can't really say. My cell phone and childhood phone number are both native routed. Wireline: http://www.localcallingguide.com/lca_prefix.php?npa=732&nxx=363 Wireless: http://www.localcallingguide.com/lca_prefix.php?npa=201&nxx=320 James Milko Architect, Network Engineering 900 Main Campus Drive Raleigh, NC 27606 Bandwidth <http://www.bandwidth.com/business/> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Aren't 95%+ rate centres pooled these days? If so, they'd still have LRNs, since LRN-guided routing is a requirement of pooling. So, who still has non-pooled 10K blocks? Is that common in metro, or largely a trait of rural LECs?
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. *From: *James Milko *Sent: *Wednesday, August 19, 2015 13:32 *To: *Alex Balashov *Cc: *VoiceOps *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
NPAC has a service type field that indicates wireless/wireline. That doesn't solve for native numbers though since they won't have LRN data since they don't have LRNs. I don't remember offhand if LERG has a wireless/wireline indication for a given [A]OCN or block.
James Milko
Architect, Network Engineering
900 Main Campus Drive
Raleigh, NC 27606
Bandwidth <http://www.bandwidth.com/business/>
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com
wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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I know there are certain areas around the country that are not portable for a few reasons. One reason is when they are served off of a remote switch, they have elaborate e911 trunking schemes and must remain on that switch to properly function in an isolation-type scenario. Kidd On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Aren't 95%+ rate centres pooled these days? If so, they'd still have LRNs, since LRN-guided routing is a requirement of pooling. So, who still has non-pooled 10K blocks? Is that common in metro, or largely a trait of rural LECs?
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. *From: *James Milko *Sent: *Wednesday, August 19, 2015 13:32 *To: *Alex Balashov *Cc: *VoiceOps *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
NPAC has a service type field that indicates wireless/wireline. That doesn't solve for native numbers though since they won't have LRN data since they don't have LRNs. I don't remember offhand if LERG has a wireless/wireline indication for a given [A]OCN or block.
James Milko
Architect, Network Engineering
900 Main Campus Drive
Raleigh, NC 27606
Bandwidth <http://www.bandwidth.com/business/>
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com
wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
LERG 6 also has a portable indicator so you can tie into that when you are pulling information from NPAC, but you can also tell somewhat because all 10 thousand blocks of the non-portable blocks are only assigned to one carrier. There are still many rural areas that are not in mandatory pooling areas because the NPA doesn't warrant it! Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting 615-791-9969
On August 19, 2015 at 1:37 PM Kidd Filby <kiddfilby at gmail.com> wrote:
I know there are certain areas around the country that are not portable for a few reasons. One reason is when they are served off of a remote switch, they have elaborate e911 trunking schemes and must remain on that switch to properly function in an isolation-type scenario.
Kidd
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com> > wrote:
?Aren't 95%+ rate centres pooled these days? If so, they'd still have LRNs, since LRN-guided routing is a requirement of pooling. So, who still has non-pooled 10K blocks? Is that common in metro, or largely a trait of rural LECs?
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. From: James Milko Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 13:32 To: Alex Balashov Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
NPAC has a service type field that indicates wireless/wireline. That doesn't solve for native numbers though since they won't have LRN data since they don't have LRNs. I don't remember offhand if LERG has a wireless/wireline indication for a given [A]OCN or block.
James Milko Architect, Network Engineering 900 Main Campus Drive Raleigh, NC 27606 Bandwidth <http://www.bandwidth.com/business/>
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com> > wrote: > > > ?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a > > > given TN, an LRN. Then what?
? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com <mailto:caalvarez at gmail.com> > wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Marylou at backuptelecom.com Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
I am an AOCN and yes the LERG has fields that differentiates between wireline and wireless. There are actually three fields that you could filter by: COCTYPE: Identifies the type of code SSC: Identifies the type of service COTYPE: Identifies the type of carrier Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting 615-791-9969
On August 19, 2015 at 12:32 PM James Milko <jmilko at bandwidth.com> wrote:
NPAC has a service type field that indicates wireless/wireline. That doesn't solve for native numbers though since they won't have LRN data since they don't have LRNs. I don't remember offhand if LERG has a wireless/wireline indication for a given [A]OCN or block.
James Milko Architect, Network Engineering 900 Main Campus Drive Raleigh, NC 27606 Bandwidth <http://www.bandwidth.com/business/>
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com> > wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com <mailto:caalvarez at gmail.com> > wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
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Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Marylou at backuptelecom.com Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
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It's in LERG 6. NPAC is used to associate the TN to the LRN so it can go to the right carrier. They have no concern what type of call it is other than which databases it should be dipped from. The LERG is the authority on routing so that's the one you'll have to look in. Also, each thousand can be different so you can't just pull by A block. I would pull LERG 6 data and map it to the LRN from LERG 12 by associating the switch in both. LERG 6 has multiple switch homing arrangements, but all LRNs from the same NPA-NXX will have the same homing arrangement. Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting 615-791-9969
On August 19, 2015 at 1:09 PM Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
Thanks, Mary Lou. But does the NPAC have any such fields as well?
Incidentally, ?where are the COCTYPE/SSC/COTYPE fields in the LERG? I was just getting the operator designation from LERG1, and mapping LRNs from LERG12. . Keep in mind I'm viewing lergdata.mdb on Linux, and that's an enormous pain and doesn't lend itself to easy exploration. :-)
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. From: Mary Lou Carey Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 13:59 To: Alex Balashov; James Milko Reply To: Mary Lou Carey Cc: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
I am an AOCN and yes the LERG has fields that differentiates between wireline and wireless. There are actually three fields that you could filter by:
COCTYPE: Identifies the type of code SSC: Identifies the type of service COTYPE: Identifies the type of carrier
Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting 615-791-9969
On August 19, 2015 at 12:32 PM James Milko <jmilko at bandwidth.com> wrote:
NPAC has a service type field that indicates wireless/wireline. That doesn't solve for native numbers though since they won't have LRN data since they don't have LRNs. I don't remember offhand if LERG has a wireless/wireline indication for a given [A]OCN or block.
James Milko Architect, Network Engineering 900 Main Campus Drive Raleigh, NC 27606 Bandwidth <http://www.bandwidth.com/business/>
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com> > wrote: > > > ?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a > > > given TN, an LRN. Then what?
? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com <mailto:caalvarez at gmail.com> > wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Marylou at backuptelecom.com Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Marylou at backuptelecom.com Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
Mary Lou, What would be wrong with the following approach? 1. Dip call, receive LRN; 2. Look up OCN from LRN in LERG12. 3. Pull carrier by OCN from LERG1, retrieve 'CATEGORY' field. -- Alex -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Nothing as long as companies don't offer both services. Looking up the NPA-NXX of the LRN in LERG 6 would tell you both what the service is and if the NXX is portable. Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting 615-791-9969
On August 19, 2015 at 1:38 PM Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
Mary Lou,
What would be wrong with the following approach?
1. Dip call, receive LRN;
2. Look up OCN from LRN in LERG12.
3. Pull carrier by OCN from LERG1, retrieve 'CATEGORY' field.
-- Alex
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Mary Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Marylou at backuptelecom.com Office: 615-791-9969 Cell: 615-796-1111
I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs.... On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States
Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day.? This product is available now and has been for a while.? This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones.? Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate.? There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all.? For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer.? The only thing I can think of is some sort of?LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response.? One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony.? Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options.? I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Their lists are already cleaned by NPA-NXX, it's just not sufficient any more because of LNP. Looks like the TCPA compliance product from Neustar, which someone else posted yesterday, is the best solution. Pretty cheap too. It's just indicates intermodal porting of a number with no other info. On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs....
On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN,
an LRN. Then what?
? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
It seems ANI Networks has a product that would work. When you do an LRN dip, it can show the OCN Category such as Cellular. Looks like it also supports DNC list support. http://aninetworks.com/PDF/ANI_Networks_Routing_Registry_Service.pdf I don't have any experience with the product, but looks like this is what you need. On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
Their lists are already cleaned by NPA-NXX, it's just not sufficient any more because of LNP. Looks like the TCPA compliance product from Neustar, which someone else posted yesterday, is the best solution. Pretty cheap too. It's just indicates intermodal porting of a number with no other info.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs....
On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given
TN, an LRN. Then what?
? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Checking for the existence of TN?s HLR might do the trick: www.hlrcheck.com<http://www.hlrcheck.com> From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jared Geiger Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:40 To: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy It seems ANI Networks has a product that would work. When you do an LRN dip, it can show the OCN Category such as Cellular. Looks like it also supports DNC list support. http://aninetworks.com/PDF/ANI_Networks_Routing_Registry_Service.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__aninetworks.com_PDF_ANI-5FNetworks-5FRouting-5FRegistry-5FService.pdf&d=AwMFaQ&c=N13-TaG7c-EYAiUNohBk74oLRjUiBTwVm-KSnr4bPSc&r=-GzOCp0ppLaBQPFaZ7lZ4bUUBQxpFBukitRP75oaRdQ&m=QESMWBlGOAeqvL5sxFzXJgWP-T6CSj28ki9OtOR0Jb0&s=XIr4eiKgRndr3RccpK-iFiD2Unl6RcIBL1rXbJSURHg&e=> I don't have any experience with the product, but looks like this is what you need. On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com<mailto:caalvarez at gmail.com>> wrote: Their lists are already cleaned by NPA-NXX, it's just not sufficient any more because of LNP. Looks like the TCPA compliance product from Neustar, which someone else posted yesterday, is the best solution. Pretty cheap too. It's just indicates intermodal porting of a number with no other info. On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net<mailto:paul at timmins.net>> wrote: I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs.... On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com<mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com>> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920<tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671<tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.evaristesys.com_&d=AwMFaQ&c=N13-TaG7c-EYAiUNohBk74oLRjUiBTwVm-KSnr4bPSc&r=-GzOCp0ppLaBQPFaZ7lZ4bUUBQxpFBukitRP75oaRdQ&m=QESMWBlGOAeqvL5sxFzXJgWP-T6CSj28ki9OtOR0Jb0&s=-4Q3ea2qvCRNq6aRMfnx3ARtNlE7GDW1EiAvm_sjhk0&e=>, http://www.csrpswitch.com/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.csrpswitch.com_&d=AwMFaQ&c=N13-TaG7c-EYAiUNohBk74oLRjUiBTwVm-KSnr4bPSc&r=-GzOCp0ppLaBQPFaZ7lZ4bUUBQxpFBukitRP75oaRdQ&m=QESMWBlGOAeqvL5sxFzXJgWP-T6CSj28ki9OtOR0Jb0&s=6ycZB2yOrTuQRGH_rqYWZ3uLHzbyYF_wQ3OqOKCn_TM&e=>
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com<mailto:caalvarez at gmail.com>> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__puck.nether.net_mailman_listinfo_voiceops&d=AwMFaQ&c=N13-TaG7c-EYAiUNohBk74oLRjUiBTwVm-KSnr4bPSc&r=-GzOCp0ppLaBQPFaZ7lZ4bUUBQxpFBukitRP75oaRdQ&m=QESMWBlGOAeqvL5sxFzXJgWP-T6CSj28ki9OtOR0Jb0&s=Fpm4_4Ui-E6YimVz9I_S0UyPJcr2eoi03LsCh2wXRfc&e=>
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640<tel:661.557.5640> (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_kiddfilby&d=AwMFaQ&c=N13-TaG7c-EYAiUNohBk74oLRjUiBTwVm-KSnr4bPSc&r=-GzOCp0ppLaBQPFaZ7lZ4bUUBQxpFBukitRP75oaRdQ&m=QESMWBlGOAeqvL5sxFzXJgWP-T6CSj28ki9OtOR0Jb0&s=6_zWAP9053grjlFgqKp7hwCVIGZ1WP7dDELmQPZeIjI&e=>
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__puck.nether.net_mailman_listinfo_voiceops&d=AwMFaQ&c=N13-TaG7c-EYAiUNohBk74oLRjUiBTwVm-KSnr4bPSc&r=-GzOCp0ppLaBQPFaZ7lZ4bUUBQxpFBukitRP75oaRdQ&m=QESMWBlGOAeqvL5sxFzXJgWP-T6CSj28ki9OtOR0Jb0&s=Fpm4_4Ui-E6YimVz9I_S0UyPJcr2eoi03LsCh2wXRfc&e=>
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HLR Check doesn't know about my Sprint CDMA phone. On Aug 21, 2015 14:49, "Hiers, David" <David.Hiers at cdk.com> wrote:
Checking for the existence of TN?s HLR ?might do the trick:
?
www.hlrcheck.com
?
?
?
?
From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jared Geiger Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:40 To: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
?
It seems ANI Networks has a product that would work. When you do an LRN dip, it can show the OCN Category such as Cellular. Looks like it also supports DNC list support.
?
http://aninetworks.com/PDF/ANI_Networks_Routing_Registry_Service.pdf
?
I don't have any experience with the product, but looks like this is what you need.
?
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
Their lists are already cleaned by NPA-NXX, it's just not sufficient any more because of LNP.? Looks like the TCPA compliance product from Neustar, which someone else posted yesterday, is the best solution.? Pretty cheap too.? It's just indicates intermodal porting of a number with no other info.
?
?
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs....
On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States
Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day.? This product is available now and has been for a while.? This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones.? Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate.? There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all.? For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer.? The only thing I can think of is some sort of?LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response.? One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony.? Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options.? I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
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?
________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, notify the sender immediately by return email and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
The principle is valid; mobile numbers have HLRs. I would not exclude them or the method based on the free demo. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Timmins [mailto:paul at timmins.net] Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:56 To: Hiers, David (DS) Cc: VoiceOps; jared at compuwizz.net Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy HLR Check doesn't know about my Sprint CDMA phone. On Aug 21, 2015 14:49, "Hiers, David" <David.Hiers at cdk.com> wrote:
Checking for the existence of TN?s HLR ?might do the trick:
?
www.hlrcheck.com
?
?
?
?
From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jared Geiger Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:40 To: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
?
It seems ANI Networks has a product that would work. When you do an LRN dip, it can show the OCN Category such as Cellular. Looks like it also supports DNC list support.
?
http://aninetworks.com/PDF/ANI_Networks_Routing_Registry_Service.pdf
?
I don't have any experience with the product, but looks like this is what you need.
?
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
Their lists are already cleaned by NPA-NXX, it's just not sufficient any more because of LNP.? Looks like the TCPA compliance product from Neustar, which someone else posted yesterday, is the best solution.? Pretty cheap too.? It's just indicates intermodal porting of a number with no other info.
?
?
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs....
On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United? States
Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day.? This product is available now and has been for a while.? This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones.? Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate.? There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all.? For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer.? The only thing I can think of is some sort of?LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response.? One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony.? Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options.? I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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?
________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, notify the sender immediately by return email and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
HLR's are unique to the GSM/UMTS world (and LTE has an HSS, which is similar). This wouldn't/shouldn't work for Sprint/Verizon. -Aaron On 8/21/15 11:56 AM, Paul Timmins wrote:
HLR Check doesn't know about my Sprint CDMA phone.
On Aug 21, 2015 14:49, "Hiers, David" <David.Hiers at cdk.com> wrote:
Checking for the existence of TN?s HLR might do the trick:
www.hlrcheck.com
From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jared Geiger Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:40 To: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
It seems ANI Networks has a product that would work. When you do an LRN dip, it can show the OCN Category such as Cellular. Looks like it also supports DNC list support.
http://aninetworks.com/PDF/ANI_Networks_Routing_Registry_Service.pdf
I don't have any experience with the product, but looks like this is what you need.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
Their lists are already cleaned by NPA-NXX, it's just not sufficient any more because of LNP. Looks like the TCPA compliance product from Neustar, which someone else posted yesterday, is the best solution. Pretty cheap too. It's just indicates intermodal porting of a number with no other info.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs....
On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, notify the sender immediately by return email and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
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Can't speak to this firm's quality or completion. If it is important enough, seems like you could do your own SS7 dips for HLR/HSS on a per-call basis. -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Seelye Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 12:16 To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy HLR's are unique to the GSM/UMTS world (and LTE has an HSS, which is similar). This wouldn't/shouldn't work for Sprint/Verizon. -Aaron On 8/21/15 11:56 AM, Paul Timmins wrote:
HLR Check doesn't know about my Sprint CDMA phone.
On Aug 21, 2015 14:49, "Hiers, David" <David.Hiers at cdk.com> wrote:
Checking for the existence of TN?s HLR might do the trick:
www.hlrcheck.com
From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jared Geiger Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:40 To: VoiceOps Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
It seems ANI Networks has a product that would work. When you do an LRN dip, it can show the OCN Category such as Cellular. Looks like it also supports DNC list support.
http://aninetworks.com/PDF/ANI_Networks_Routing_Registry_Service.pdf
I don't have any experience with the product, but looks like this is what you need.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote:
Their lists are already cleaned by NPA-NXX, it's just not sufficient any more because of LNP. Looks like the TCPA compliance product from Neustar, which someone else posted yesterday, is the best solution. Pretty cheap too. It's just indicates intermodal porting of a number with no other info.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net> wrote:
I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs....
On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? ? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Kidd Filby Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 To: Carlos Alvarez Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from.
Kidd
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com> wrote: I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M.
So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas.
If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies.
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Kidd Filby 661.557.5640 (C) http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, notify the sender immediately by return email and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
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Why should Carlos's client care about HLR DB entries? Isn't determining whether the number is homed to a mobile operator sufficient to indemnify against the regulation? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
That's all we need to know. If the number is currently going to a cell carrier, it gets moved to a manual-dial bucket. If not, allow it to be auto-dialed. That's all. The regulations are a joke and are just affecting legit businesses doing actual work. The spam/scam operators just ignore it all and can't be found since they are overseas or using overseas proxies. I've since also found, from my own research, that there are many reasons they could still auto-dial a cell phone. If they have any existing business with the person, if the person has previously agreed to do phone surveys, and similar scenarios. So the only numbers affected are those that they random-dial or sequential-dial for purposes of polling a random sampling of people. This is only a small fraction of their projects. On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 12:41 PM Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
Why should Carlos's client care about HLR DB entries? Isn't determining whether the number is homed to a mobile operator sufficient to indemnify against the regulation?
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
?Well, in all fairness, overseas-originated calls aren't magical. Nothing can be dumped into the North American PSTN without the cooperation and abetting of a local, PSTN-interconnected entity. :-) But yes, point taken; the terminators claim common carrier and the end-scammer-spammer can't be effectively held liable. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry. ? Original Message ? From: Carlos Alvarez Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 16:15 To: Alex Balashov; voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy
Right. All these products are doing is doing the NPA-NXX lookup AFTER the LNP lookup. The NPA-NXX of the LRN is the carrier of record. If it's a cell phone company NPA/NXX you're dealing with a cellphone. -Paul On 08/19/2015 07:25 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
Their lists are already cleaned by NPA-NXX, it's just not sufficient any more because of LNP. Looks like the TCPA compliance product from Neustar, which someone else posted yesterday, is the best solution. Pretty cheap too. It's just indicates intermodal porting of a number with no other info.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net <mailto:paul at timmins.net>> wrote:
I know a guy who runs a site that sells the npa nxx to carrier type at a fraction of the lerg costs....
On Aug 19, 2015 11:39 AM, Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com <mailto:abalashov at evaristesys.com>> wrote: > > ?Indeed, you'd start from the NPAC, which would get you, for a given TN, an LRN. Then what? > ? > -- > Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC > 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 > Atlanta, GA 30346 > United States > > Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) > Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ > > Sent from my BlackBerry. > Original Message > From: Kidd Filby > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:52 > To: Carlos Alvarez > Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> > Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Preventing calls to cell phones with guaranteed accuracy > > If I were to offer this service or database access, I would start with my own local copy of NPAC that I'd update every X-minutes a day. This product is available now and has been for a while. This is the only sure-way, I know of, to have the most accurate data to work from. > > Kidd > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com <mailto:caalvarez at gmail.com>> wrote: > I have a customer in market research who is legally required to manually dial calls to cell phones. Right now they are considering abandoning all of their auto/predictive dialer software and going to manual dial for everything, because the list-scrubbing services have been shown to be inaccurate. There are extreme penalties for auto-dialing a cell phone, and "best effort" is NOT a defense to this, at all. For example, Gallup just settle a claim for $12M. > > So they need a totally accurate way to prevent a cell phone call from originating from their dialer. The only thing I can think of is some sort of LRN dip + LRN-to-carrier-type response. One of their people talked to Neustar, but didn't get great answers because he doesn't really understand telephony. Before I get in touch with Neustar, I thought I'd see if people here have some ideas. > > If you provide a commercial product for this, please feel free to tell me so on or off list, the customer is willing to pay for the service and we're open to all options. I don't have a budget number yet but manual dialing is going to cost them quite a bit for some types of studies. > > _______________________________________________ > VoiceOps mailing list > VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops > > > -- > Kidd Filby > 661.557.5640 (C) > http://www.linkedin.com/in/kiddfilby > > _______________________________________________ > VoiceOps mailing list > VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
That's exactly right. There's no way to clean up a list "by" NPA-NXX. You need to know where the call is going to go, which cannot be determined from the number itself[1]. So, you still need to do an LNP lookup to know which prefix the number is "genuinely' affiliated with. [1] Except for nonportable blocks/areas. -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
On 08/25/2015 04:22 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
That's exactly right. There's no way to clean up a list "by" NPA-NXX. You need to know where the call is going to go, which cannot be determined from the number itself[1]. So, you still need to do an LNP lookup to know which prefix the number is "genuinely' affiliated with.
[1] Except for nonportable blocks/areas.
As I explain to my customers, you can absolutely use my data to do the initial scrub. LNP dips tend to cost money per dip, so taking the obvious cell phone blocks out first saves you time and money. But you MUST do the next step and scrub them after dipping too. -Paul
On 08/25/2015 04:24 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:
taking the obvious cell phone blocks out first saves you time and money.
Curious, how does that deal with a scenario in which there was an intermodal port wireless -> fixed-line? Or does this just not tend to happen to any non-negligible degree? If so, I wonder if that may change with the advent of MVNOs whose back side is a VoIP-oriented CLEC + the regulatory movement toward non-LEC ITSPs owning their own number resources Is it reasonable to expect that all mobile numbers operated by some sort of "enhanced" wireless provider (e.g. a boutique MVNO) will be homed to the big networks' number blocks which return a wireless affiliation? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
If you do NPA-NXX first and then test for a ported number second (via one of the many ways discussed already), you will falsely eliminate numbers that were ported from wireless to fixed. From my customer's perspective, they don't care. First off, there are FAR less ports that way as compared to ports to wireless. Second, it just means they will hand-dial the number, not "lose" it altogether. While there is a slightly higher cost, it's not huge enough to care. If we do this, I'm 90% certain we will use Neustar's product that just shows intermodal ports. It's cheap and simple. However the customer is still on the fence on whether there's enough cost involved for hand-dialing versus the risk of a lawsuit or FCC smackdown. I find it hard to believe, but the early numbers say that the cost isn't going up all that much with manual dialing. On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:29 PM Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
On 08/25/2015 04:24 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:
taking the obvious cell phone blocks out first saves you time and money.
Curious, how does that deal with a scenario in which there was an intermodal port wireless -> fixed-line? Or does this just not tend to happen to any non-negligible degree?
If so, I wonder if that may change with the advent of MVNOs whose back side is a VoIP-oriented CLEC + the regulatory movement toward non-LEC ITSPs owning their own number resources Is it reasonable to expect that all mobile numbers operated by some sort of "enhanced" wireless provider (e.g. a boutique MVNO) will be homed to the big networks' number blocks which return a wireless affiliation?
-- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States
Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 08/25/2015 04:29 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
On 08/25/2015 04:24 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:
taking the obvious cell phone blocks out first saves you time and money.
Curious, how does that deal with a scenario in which there was an intermodal port wireless -> fixed-line? Or does this just not tend to happen to any non-negligible degree?
If so, I wonder if that may change with the advent of MVNOs whose back side is a VoIP-oriented CLEC + the regulatory movement toward non-LEC ITSPs owning their own number resources Is it reasonable to expect that all mobile numbers operated by some sort of "enhanced" wireless provider (e.g. a boutique MVNO) will be homed to the big networks' number blocks which return a wireless affiliation?
Most marketers don't care. It happens, but very very rarely - the cost benefits of pre-scrubbing a few million numbers this way tends to outweigh the occasional sale they'll get hitting one of these (remember, the call to conversion ratio is typically amazingly low to begin with). If things do move back to landline, it's usually stuff that started that way. Many people have wireless numbers not in their home ratecenter (because wireless carriers do things by MSA and never really had to care) and most landline carriers won't port it to a landline if it's out of ratecenter. -Paul
On 08/25/2015 04:41 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:
most landline carriers won't port it to a landline if it's out of ratecenter.
I thought ports were only possible within a rate centre, and so by definition impossible to port to a carrier which doesn't operate in that rate centre? -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30346 United States Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
On 08/25/2015 05:52 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
On 08/25/2015 04:41 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:
most landline carriers won't port it to a landline if it's out of ratecenter.
I thought ports were only possible within a rate centre, and so by definition impossible to port to a carrier which doesn't operate in that rate centre?
That's what the rules say, yes. The language seems clear but these days really isn't. The technology itself lets you basically port anything in the LATA you're in as long as your LRN is well connected. "operating in the ratecenter" can get pretty nebulous when you're talking about things like hosted PBX, remote call forwards, VoIP ATAs, remote office things like google voice, etc. Nothing technically stops me from providing you a POTS line here in Detroit with a Los Angeles phone number, in and out. I could load a detroit 911 address and even not have to worry that you'll die if something untoward happens here. And it could all be as baseband voice on that twin copper wire coming into your house (and I could put bonded VDSL2/ADSL2+ on that if you wanted, too, depending on the wirecenter and distance!). For me, it's just keystrokes at my desk. And depending on what and how you and I contract, there's nothing at all illegal or even unethical about it. Heck, foreign exchange lines are a tariffed product still in many states! What i cannot do for sure is have you request service from me, give you a number 3 towns over and not have you aware of that, and then laugh as you try to take that to AT&T POTS and watch them tell you in a bewildered tone that you can't keep that number and how do you have that anyway. (This language applies mostly to Michigan as we've mostly deregulated our entire telecom industry here, to the consumer's detriment) -Paul
most landline carriers won't port it to a landline if it's out of ratecenter.
I thought ports were only possible within a rate centre, and so by definition impossible to port to a carrier which doesn't operate in that rate centre?
It is my impression that ports are technically possible anywhere within a LATA, but for business reasons most telcos won't port between rate centers. They're definitely not possible across the country because long distance calls only do the LNP lookup after routing the call to the destination tandem. (That's the "L" in LNP.)
On Aug 25, 2015, at 23:49, John Levine <johnl at taugh.com> wrote:
most landline carriers won't port it to a landline if it's out of ratecenter.
I thought ports were only possible within a rate centre, and so by definition impossible to port to a carrier which doesn't operate in that rate centre?
It is my impression that ports are technically possible anywhere within a LATA, but for business reasons most telcos won't port between rate centers.
They're definitely not possible across the country because long distance calls only do the LNP lookup after routing the call to the destination tandem. (That's the "L" in LNP.)
Your impression is correct. My commentary regarding cross-national number access on a POTS line was based on the idea i'd be trucking it across my network from a tandem in California in that example across my network to detroit, and dropping it on your doorstep, but yes, LATA. And the business reason has to do with local calling areas if you're not on an unlimited plan, as well as intercarrier compensation even if you are. -Paul
Yeah, I guess it makes sense at a technical level. Any CLEC can, in principle, pick up a call from anywhere in the LATA at the ILEC tandems (notwithstanding issues of DEOTs and all that), and they do so with regularity. I just thought there was something in one hundred percent of ICAs that stops them from violating the incumbent's conceptions of rate centres as described in their public tariff. On outbound, this is accomplished with switched access, I suppose. On inbound, I would think it would just be the ILECs stopping them. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?Nexus 10.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 11:49 PM, John Levine <johnl at taugh.com> wrote:
most landline carriers won't port it to a landline if it's out of ratecenter.
I thought ports were only possible within a rate centre, and so by definition impossible to port to a carrier which doesn't operate in that rate centre?
It is my impression that ports are technically possible anywhere within a LATA, but for business reasons most telcos won't port between rate centers.
They're definitely not possible across the country because long distance calls only do the LNP lookup after routing the call to the destination tandem. (That's the "L" in LNP.)
Usually this is because their numbers can't support nomadic 911.
They're definitely not possible across the country because long distance calls only do the LNP lookup after routing the call to the destination tandem. (That's the "L" in LNP.)
Usually this is because their numbers can't support nomadic 911.
It's more than that, long distance carriers couldn't route calls to calls ported outside the LATA without some significant changes to signalling protocols. I can believe it's all easy for numbers within your network, but IXC traffic usually hands traffic to the tandem and expects it to do the LNP part. Regards, John Levine, johnl at taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail.
participants (13)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
andy＠mbrez.com -
aseelye-lists＠eltopia.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
David.Hiers＠cdk.com -
ewieling＠nyigc.com -
jared＠compuwizz.net -
jmilko＠bandwidth.com -
johnl＠taugh.com -
kiddfilby＠gmail.com -
marylou＠backuptelecom.com -
matthew＠corp.crocker.com -
paul＠timmins.net