Hi Has anyone seen subpoena signed by local city official? We usually get subpoena for CDR request signed by Judge. This is first time we saw a local city official asking for CDR. We really want to know industry practice for this kind of request. Thanks in advance. -Jay
If it's not from a judge or city LEO, I'm not sure a request has any kind of legal standing just because it comes from a city "official". What kind of official are we talking about? -- Nathan ________________________________ From: VoiceOps <voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> on behalf of Jay Patel <clecny at gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 2:15 PM To: VoiceOps Subject: [VoiceOps] Subpoena Hi Has anyone seen subpoena signed by local city official? We usually get subpoena for CDR request signed by Judge. This is first time we saw a local city official asking for CDR. We really want to know industry practice for this kind of request. Thanks in advance. -Jay
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but I believe it could be legitimate if your city, county, or state have ordinances allowing it. New York Civil Code appears to specifically allow this: http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/civil-practice-law-and-rules/cvp-sect-2302.html http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/civil-practice-law-and-rules/cvp-sect-2305.html You can probably determine by what statutory authority the city official is issuing the subpoena. Not being lawyers, ECG advises our VoIP clients to behave as if they have the same duty to protect CPNI as any interconnected provider. A lawyer could work out your obligation, but they'd need to understand the intersection of city code with Section 222(c)(1) of the Communication Act (where it says that "except as required by law", telecommunications carriers have a responsibility to protect privacy of CPNI). Mark R Lindsey, SMTS +1-229-316-0013 mark at ecg.co http://ecg.co/lindsey/
On Mar 8, 2017, at 17:15 , Jay Patel <clecny at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
Has anyone seen subpoena signed by local city official? We usually get subpoena for CDR request signed by Judge.
This is first time we saw a local city official asking for CDR. We really want to know industry practice for this kind of request.
Thanks in advance.
-Jay
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I'm not a lawyer. Not within the telecom context, but I have seen a Subpoena Duces Tecum signed by an officer of the court (a lawyer in a civil case). If there is a case number attached to the order, you might be able to verify if the city official is an officer of the court where the case was filed. You should consult with your company's attorney, as disregarding a subpoena could carry civil or criminal consequences. On 03/08/17?17:15?-0500, Jay Patel wrote:
Hi
Has anyone seen subpoena signed by local city official? We usually get subpoena for CDR request signed by Judge.
This is first time we saw a local city official asking for CDR. We really want to know industry practice for this kind of request.
Thanks in advance.
-Jay
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Dan White
I'm not a lawyer, but I played one in a high school musical once. OK, not really. The musical part. The process I usually go through is: 1. Read the subpoena 2. Web search the law it states gives them the power to issue the subpoena 3. Find a phone number of the entity NOT on the subpoena or the email/fax that sent it 4. Call them and verify the voracity of the subpoena, the status of the individual who sent it AND the individual who is requested to receive it, if they are not the same individual. 5. If the law seems reasonable to your un-lawyered logic, and the individual(s) involved were verified out of band, you should send the information. I believe that if you respond to the subpoena and the individual was NOT empowered to issue such a subpoena, the court will throw out such evidence (and I would hope have it destroyed). You complying with a legal request, and doing a bare minimum of validation, puts you in a good position to justify the information disclosure. If you can afford to have an attorney review every subpoena, great! If not, and I suspect most of us don't, sanity check, reply, move on. Make sure your TOS clearly states that you comply with all legal requests for information. My opinion only. Beckman On Wed, 8 Mar 2017, Dan White wrote:
I'm not a lawyer.
Not within the telecom context, but I have seen a Subpoena Duces Tecum signed by an officer of the court (a lawyer in a civil case). If there is a case number attached to the order, you might be able to verify if the city official is an officer of the court where the case was filed.
You should consult with your company's attorney, as disregarding a subpoena could carry civil or criminal consequences.
On 03/08/17?17:15?-0500, Jay Patel wrote:
Hi
Has anyone seen subpoena signed by local city official? We usually get subpoena for CDR request signed by Judge.
This is first time we saw a local city official asking for CDR. We really want to know industry practice for this kind of request.
Thanks in advance.
-Jay
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Dan White _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our ToS says we will comply with all legal demands for information, and that we're not liable if we reasonably give up information to an entity believing it to be legal, but it's not. Yours probably should too. We had our lawyer review the first request for info from a county attorney. He said it was legal. Since then we've just done some research each time then complied. On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:56 PM, Peter Beckman <beckman at angryox.com> wrote:
I'm not a lawyer, but I played one in a high school musical once.
OK, not really. The musical part.
The process I usually go through is:
1. Read the subpoena 2. Web search the law it states gives them the power to issue the subpoena 3. Find a phone number of the entity NOT on the subpoena or the email/fax that sent it 4. Call them and verify the voracity of the subpoena, the status of the individual who sent it AND the individual who is requested to receive it, if they are not the same individual. 5. If the law seems reasonable to your un-lawyered logic, and the individual(s) involved were verified out of band, you should send the information.
I believe that if you respond to the subpoena and the individual was NOT empowered to issue such a subpoena, the court will throw out such evidence (and I would hope have it destroyed). You complying with a legal request, and doing a bare minimum of validation, puts you in a good position to justify the information disclosure.
If you can afford to have an attorney review every subpoena, great! If not, and I suspect most of us don't, sanity check, reply, move on. Make sure your TOS clearly states that you comply with all legal requests for information.
My opinion only.
Beckman
On Wed, 8 Mar 2017, Dan White wrote:
I'm not a lawyer.
Not within the telecom context, but I have seen a Subpoena Duces Tecum signed by an officer of the court (a lawyer in a civil case). If there is a case number attached to the order, you might be able to verify if the city official is an officer of the court where the case was filed.
You should consult with your company's attorney, as disregarding a subpoena could carry civil or criminal consequences.
On 03/08/17 17:15 -0500, Jay Patel wrote:
Hi
Has anyone seen subpoena signed by local city official? We usually get subpoena for CDR request signed by Judge.
This is first time we saw a local city official asking for CDR. We really want to know industry practice for this kind of request.
Thanks in advance.
-Jay
_______________________________________________
VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Dan White _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
participants (6)
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beckman＠angryox.com -
caalvarez＠gmail.com -
clecny＠gmail.com -
dwhite＠olp.net -
mark＠ecg.co -
nathana＠fsr.com