Rural call completion hotline
http://www.telecompetitor.com/verizon-rural-call-completion-hotline-launched... -- Regards, Peter Radizeski @ RAD-INFO INC Circuits * Bandwidth * Consulting (813) 963-5884
Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be connected. David Thompson Network Services Support Technician (O) 858.357.8794 (F) 858-225-1882 (E) dthompson at esi-estech.com (W)?www.esi-estech.com -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Peter Rad. Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 9:38 AM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline http://www.telecompetitor.com/verizon-rural-call-completion-hotline-launch ed-in-fcc-compliance-plan/ -- Regards, Peter Radizeski @ RAD-INFO INC Circuits * Bandwidth * Consulting (813) 963-5884 _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote:
Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be connected.
Yes and no. Imagine a rural town with a population of 600 people and maybe 300 telephones that has very high per-minute termination charges justified by the cost of outside plant to reach those people. Building capacity to handle calls to those human beings living in that area and absorbing the charges of the miniscule percentage of total LD calls to those humans is trivial for most IXCs. When that rural town splits revenue with the operators of thousands of "free" conference call services, 900-number style chat lines, dial-a-prayer, and any other traffic pumping scheme you can think of, things change. The call failures to the live breathing humans actually living in the rural area aren't due to insufficient capacity to reach the subscribers that justified the high termination charges, they're due to orders of magnitude more inbound calls to the exchange than actual bona-fide rural lines. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
I'm not going to deny that traffic pumping hasn't happened, because I know it has. I'm also familiar with many rural telcos that aren't traffic pumping, and are actually just trying to provide quality service. Inbound traffic from the big guys gets least-cost routed to the dirt-cheap carrier of the day, where it results in dropped calls, one-way audio, delayed ring, poor audio quality, etc... The rural telco's customers call to ask why Cousin Jim who is a Verizon customer can't call them, and they have to say, "Have Cousin Jim open a trouble with Verizon." Sometimes the rural telco manages to convince the big guys to change their routing to avoid the dirt-cheap carrier, and then things work fine for awhile until they change the routing back again. The $5 million it cost Verizon is a drop in the bucket compared to what they save by their shenanigans. On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 11:42 PM, Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net> wrote:
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote:
Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be connected.
Yes and no.
Imagine a rural town with a population of 600 people and maybe 300 telephones that has very high per-minute termination charges justified by the cost of outside plant to reach those people. Building capacity to handle calls to those human beings living in that area and absorbing the charges of the miniscule percentage of total LD calls to those humans is trivial for most IXCs.
When that rural town splits revenue with the operators of thousands of "free" conference call services, 900-number style chat lines, dial-a-prayer, and any other traffic pumping scheme you can think of, things change. The call failures to the live breathing humans actually living in the rural area aren't due to insufficient capacity to reach the subscribers that justified the high termination charges, they're due to orders of magnitude more inbound calls to the exchange than actual bona-fide rural lines.
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote:
Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be connected.
Some people just say no. I suspect that this isn't exactly legal. http://www.speakeasy.net/tos/blocked.php -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
So can you report any rural call completion issue to this Verizon line, or only ones where one of the call to/from parties is a Verizon number? What about a call going from one LEC to another LEC through a Verizon Tandem? On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net> wrote:
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote:
Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be connected.
Some people just say no. I suspect that this isn't exactly legal.
http://www.speakeasy.net/tos/blocked.php
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On 5/5/15 10:22 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
So can you report any rural call completion issue to this Verizon line, or only ones where one of the call to/from parties is a Verizon number? What about a call going from one LEC to another LEC through a Verizon Tandem?
I suspect that much of this is marketing on Verizon's part to present the appearance that they care. Just because you can report it to them doesn't mean that your report won't end up on the desk of a certain Mr. Devlin Null. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
Ouch. Several of our CLEC NPA-NXX'es on that last. Checking with legal. Frank -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:08 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote:
Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be connected.
Some people just say no. I suspect that this isn't exactly legal. http://www.speakeasy.net/tos/blocked.php -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
What do you mean? Did you mean to say list? What list? On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk at iname.com> wrote:
Ouch. Several of our CLEC NPA-NXX'es on that last. Checking with legal.
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:08 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote:
Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be connected.
Some people just say no. I suspect that this isn't exactly legal.
http://www.speakeasy.net/tos/blocked.php
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Look at the speakeasy link. They're willfully and publicly declining to terminate traffic to certain NPA-NXXs. -Aaron On 5/6/2015 7:22 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
What do you mean? Did you mean to say list? What list?
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk at iname.com <mailto:frnkblk at iname.com>> wrote:
Ouch. Several of our CLEC NPA-NXX'es on that last. Checking with legal.
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org>] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:08 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote: > Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in > America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be > connected.
Some people just say no. I suspect that this isn't exactly legal.
http://www.speakeasy.net/tos/blocked.php
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net <mailto:jay at impulse.net> Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 <tel:805%20884-6323> - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
--- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com
Those are the providers you need to avoid. If they can't understand that in business you win some and you lose some hopefully at the end of the quarter you come out on top then they are probably already walking a thin line between profitability and losing money. In which case you may find yourself one morning without any dial tone and stuck in a nightmare that may take months to repair as you try and port your numbers out. David Thompson Network Services Support Technician (O) 858.357.8794 (F) 858-225-1882 (E) dthompson at esi-estech.com (W)?www.esi-estech.com -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Seelye Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 3:18 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline Look at the speakeasy link. They're willfully and publicly declining to terminate traffic to certain NPA-NXXs. -Aaron On 5/6/2015 7:22 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
What do you mean? Did you mean to say list? What list?
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk at iname.com <mailto:frnkblk at iname.com>> wrote:
Ouch. Several of our CLEC NPA-NXX'es on that last. Checking with legal.
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org>] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:08 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote: > Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in > America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be > connected.
Some people just say no. I suspect that this isn't exactly legal.
http://www.speakeasy.net/tos/blocked.php
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net <mailto:jay at impulse.net> Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 <tel:805%20884-6323> - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
--- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Google itself also blocks traffic pumpers on Google Voice, though they've long argued they shouldn't be subject to regulation as a carrier: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/voice/pmkQ58_HEfo I understand where you're coming from David, but these services are total scams taking advantage of small carriers desire to increase revenue and consumers lack of understanding about how these services operate and are paid for. Anyone being honest about this can't possibly argue that these aren't a dishonest form of cost shifting onto providers like me. I've not gone to the lengths of a provider like Speakeasy, but I understand where they're coming from. This kind of calling is a measurable impact on revenue in a competitive market. At wholesale, it's often a great deal cheaper for me to have customers calling China than it is virtually all of these kinds of services. It's not at all fair - to anyone involved - to burden an intermediary, much less one that's significantly encumbered by regulation, with this cost. On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 2:29 PM, David Thompson <dthompson at esi-estech.com> wrote:
Those are the providers you need to avoid. If they can't understand that in business you win some and you lose some hopefully at the end of the quarter you come out on top then they are probably already walking a thin line between profitability and losing money. In which case you may find yourself one morning without any dial tone and stuck in a nightmare that may take months to repair as you try and port your numbers out.
David Thompson Network Services Support Technician (O) 858.357.8794 (F) 858-225-1882 (E) dthompson at esi-estech.com (W) www.esi-estech.com
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Seelye Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 3:18 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline
Look at the speakeasy link. They're willfully and publicly declining to terminate traffic to certain NPA-NXXs.
-Aaron
On 5/6/2015 7:22 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
What do you mean? Did you mean to say list? What list?
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk at iname.com <mailto:frnkblk at iname.com>> wrote:
Ouch. Several of our CLEC NPA-NXX'es on that last. Checking with legal.
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org>] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:08 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote: > Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in > America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be > connected.
Some people just say no. I suspect that this isn't exactly legal.
http://www.speakeasy.net/tos/blocked.php
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net <mailto:jay at impulse.net> Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 <tel:805%20884-6323> - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Regarding the reference to the Speakeasy link - thank you for bringing this page to our attention. Please be advised that Speakeasy was acquired by MegaPath in 2010. MegaPath does not block rural calls. The link you have referenced is outdated and inaccurate. We are removing that page from the legacy site. We apologize for any confusion. Please refer to www.megapath.com<http://www.megapath.com> or our customer portal, http://my.megapath.com for current product descriptions. Cheers, Vic Diloreto Director Network Engineering MegaPath From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Elson Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 4:42 PM To: David Thompson Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline Google itself also blocks traffic pumpers on Google Voice, though they've long argued they shouldn't be subject to regulation as a carrier: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/voice/pmkQ58_HEfo I understand where you're coming from David, but these services are total scams taking advantage of small carriers desire to increase revenue and consumers lack of understanding about how these services operate and are paid for. Anyone being honest about this can't possibly argue that these aren't a dishonest form of cost shifting onto providers like me. I've not gone to the lengths of a provider like Speakeasy, but I understand where they're coming from. This kind of calling is a measurable impact on revenue in a competitive market. At wholesale, it's often a great deal cheaper for me to have customers calling China than it is virtually all of these kinds of services. It's not at all fair - to anyone involved - to burden an intermediary, much less one that's significantly encumbered by regulation, with this cost. On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 2:29 PM, David Thompson <dthompson at esi-estech.com<mailto:dthompson at esi-estech.com>> wrote: Those are the providers you need to avoid. If they can't understand that in business you win some and you lose some hopefully at the end of the quarter you come out on top then they are probably already walking a thin line between profitability and losing money. In which case you may find yourself one morning without any dial tone and stuck in a nightmare that may take months to repair as you try and port your numbers out. David Thompson Network Services Support Technician (O) 858.357.8794<tel:858.357.8794> (F) 858-225-1882<tel:858-225-1882> (E) dthompson at esi-estech.com<mailto:dthompson at esi-estech.com> (W) www.esi-estech.com<http://www.esi-estech.com> -----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org>] On Behalf Of Aaron Seelye Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 3:18 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline Look at the speakeasy link. They're willfully and publicly declining to terminate traffic to certain NPA-NXXs. -Aaron On 5/6/2015 7:22 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
What do you mean? Did you mean to say list? What list?
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk at iname.com<mailto:frnkblk at iname.com> <mailto:frnkblk at iname.com<mailto:frnkblk at iname.com>>> wrote:
Ouch. Several of our CLEC NPA-NXX'es on that last. Checking with legal.
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org> <mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org>>] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:08 PM To: voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org> <mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Rural call completion hotline
On 5/4/15 1:29 PM, David Thompson wrote: > Finally someone's taking a stand about this. Unacceptable in 2015 in > America that you cannot call coast to coast and expect the call to be > connected.
Some people just say no. I suspect that this isn't exactly legal.
http://www.speakeasy.net/tos/blocked.php
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net<mailto:jay at impulse.net> <mailto:jay at impulse.net<mailto:jay at impulse.net>> Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323<tel:805%20884-6323> <tel:805%20884-6323> - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org> <mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org<mailto:VoiceOps at voiceops.org>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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?My experience and mine personally has been that nearly all VoIP ITSPs refuse to terminate to at least some high-access codes known to house a lot of traffic pumping. Far from all of them take that position publicly, though. If subjected to complaints they will generally unblock particular destinations for particular customers. -- Alex?Balashov?|?Principal?|?Evariste?Systems?LLC 303?Perimeter?Center?North,?Suite?300 Atlanta,?GA?30346 United?States Tel:?+1-800-250-5920?(toll-free)?/?+1-678-954-0671 (direct) Web:?http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry.
participants (10)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
aseelye-lists＠eltopia.com -
colton.conor＠gmail.com -
dthompson＠esi-estech.com -
frnkblk＠iname.com -
jason＠thebaughers.com -
jay＠west.net -
joshelson＠gmail.com -
peter＠4isps.com -
Victor.Diloreto＠megapath.com