How many people have died because of mis-configured 911 VOIP services? I know of two such cases, one in FL and one in Calgary. Morbid topic, I know, but rainy mornings are good for serious thoughts. David
I live in Calgary, I remember when that happened; The PSAP/E911 operator sent the ambulance to the wrong address... Merely it is due to the customer not notifying the carrier that they have moved / E911 operator not confirming the address. It was quite a big deal in the papers around here and triggered several VOIP providers to tighten up. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 09:09, David Hiers <hiersd at gmail.com> wrote:
How many people have died because of mis-configured 911 VOIP services?
I know of two such cases, one in FL and one in Calgary.
Morbid topic, I know, but rainy mornings are good for serious thoughts.
David _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
It never hurts to try to do better at that kind of thing.... On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Russell McConnachie<russell at mcconnachie.ca> wrote:
I live in Calgary, I remember when that happened; The?PSAP/E911?operator?sent the ambulance to the wrong address... Merely it is due to the customer not notifying the carrier that they have moved / E911 operator not confirming the address. It was quite a big deal in the papers around here and triggered several VOIP providers to tighten up.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 09:09, David Hiers <hiersd at gmail.com> wrote:
How many people have died because of mis-configured 911 VOIP services?
I know of two such cases, one in FL and one in Calgary.
Morbid topic, I know, but rainy mornings are good for serious thoughts.
David _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:09 AM, David Hiers<hiersd at gmail.com> wrote:
How many people have died because of mis-configured 911 VOIP services?
I know of two such cases, one in FL and one in Calgary.
Do you mean to say, "How many people have died following a failed attempt to dial 911 via VoIP"? I would suggest that it is rare for medical professionals to say with certainty that had a call been "correctly" terminated to a 911 operator that a person's life *would* have been saved. Only that there would have been an increased likelihood of the caller surviving. Semantics, yes. But ... a worthy distinction in my opinion. Yours, -jbn
And on a similar note replete with the hallmarks of inductive logic: For every sensational death or other ultimate catastrophe probabilistically attributable to VoIP E911 issues, there are probably thousands of cases of minor injuries, increased wait times, and other situations where the argument could be made that the response should have been more efficient and/or the problem resolved faster and more accurately. I have seen that come up as a dominant talking point in the context of calls getting routed to the wrong (in an administrative sense, not necessarily geographic) PSAP, or ALI information in fixed-line E911 databases not being up to date or applicable at the moment the call was placed. As VoIP gets more even more mobile and nomadic than it already is, I suspect there won't be any serious solutions until some sort of sufficiently universal GPS or transponder triangulation scheme similar to what cell carriers do for 911 is arrived at. And, of course, that is replete with privacy and due process implications. Not a simple problem by any stretch of the imagination, even beyond the technology and standardization aspects. -- Sent from mobile device On Aug 25, 2009, at 12:11 PM, Justin B Newman <justin at ejtown.org> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:09 AM, David Hiers<hiersd at gmail.com> wrote:
How many people have died because of mis-configured 911 VOIP services?
I know of two such cases, one in FL and one in Calgary.
Do you mean to say, "How many people have died following a failed attempt to dial 911 via VoIP"?
I would suggest that it is rare for medical professionals to say with certainty that had a call been "correctly" terminated to a 911 operator that a person's life *would* have been saved. Only that there would have been an increased likelihood of the caller surviving.
Semantics, yes. But ... a worthy distinction in my opinion.
Yours,
-jbn _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
Excellent point. I guess I'm asking about anytime 911 and voip make CNN in a really bad way. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Justin B Newman<justin at ejtown.org> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:09 AM, David Hiers<hiersd at gmail.com> wrote:
How many people have died because of mis-configured 911 VOIP services?
I know of two such cases, one in FL and one in Calgary.
Do you mean to say, "How many people have died following a failed attempt to dial 911 via VoIP"?
I would suggest that it is rare for medical professionals to say with certainty that had a call been "correctly" terminated to a 911 operator that a person's life *would* have been saved. ?Only that there would have been an increased likelihood of the caller surviving.
Semantics, yes. ?But ... a worthy distinction in my opinion.
Yours,
-jbn
Being an emergency responder for my local small town, I can be pretty opinionated when it comes to 911 service. I would say that a much larger problem than wrong E-911 data from a VoIP site would be cell phone calls. For cell phones that do not have GPS chips, they attempt to triangulate the location based on what cell tower you are attached to. I have personally seen that method be more than 15 MILES off, as well as be routed to the wrong 911 facility, in the wrong county. PSTN has problems with 911 access too, as in this story where Verizon took out a call center for 5 hours... http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=833545&category=REGIO... And don't get me started about the computer aided dispatching software issues... I always thought that copy and paste was supposed to crash the entire system... -Jonathan On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:01 AM, David Hiers<hiersd at gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent point. ?I guess I'm asking about anytime 911 and voip make CNN in a really bad way.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Justin B Newman<justin at ejtown.org> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:09 AM, David Hiers<hiersd at gmail.com> wrote:
How many people have died because of mis-configured 911 VOIP services?
I know of two such cases, one in FL and one in Calgary.
Do you mean to say, "How many people have died following a failed attempt to dial 911 via VoIP"?
I would suggest that it is rare for medical professionals to say with certainty that had a call been "correctly" terminated to a 911 operator that a person's life *would* have been saved. ?Only that there would have been an increased likelihood of the caller surviving.
Semantics, yes. ?But ... a worthy distinction in my opinion.
Yours,
-jbn
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participants (5)
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abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
hiersd＠gmail.com -
jonathan＠thurmantech.com -
justin＠ejtown.org -
russell＠mcconnachie.ca