Outbound Caller-ID Name Issue on Certain Carriers
We are having increasing numbers of complaints from our users that they make outbound calls and the far end sees the incorrect calling party name. We have "ABC Company" loaded into the CNAM DB , we make test calls to a local LEC line and the correct name shows up. That same customer calls a Comcast, MetroPCS, Vonage, etc number and the far end sees "Dominos Pizza"(for example). I have been putting out dozens of fires with these terminating carriers for a couple of weeks, they find the problem and fix it and we move forward. This is normal business but have seen an enormous increase in these kind of reports from customers. Anyone else out there seeing this kind of issue recently? -- **Christian Pena**
On 10/06/2010 05:29 PM, Christian Pena wrote:
We are having increasing numbers of complaints from our users that they make outbound calls and the far end sees the incorrect calling party name.
We have "ABC Company" loaded into the CNAM DB , we make test calls to a local LEC line and the correct name shows up. That same customer calls a Comcast, MetroPCS, Vonage, etc number and the far end sees "Dominos Pizza"(for example).
I have been putting out dozens of fires with these terminating carriers for a couple of weeks, they find the problem and fix it and we move forward. This is normal business but have seen an enormous increase in these kind of reports from customers.
Anyone else out there seeing this kind of issue recently?
Yeah, not everybody uses the same CNAM lookup providers, and there's a lot of caching going on. Characteristically, the most accurate and up-to-date database is the one the ILEC uses; many of these VoIP ITSPs and CLECs use other third parties, and either they or the third party do a fair bit of caching and questionable update processes to save money on CNAM dips. The whole thing's pretty stupid; it should just be canceled. -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 1170 Peachtree Street 12th Floor, Suite 1200 Atlanta, GA 30309 Tel: +1-678-954-0670 Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/
On 10/06/2010 05:33 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, not everybody uses the same CNAM lookup providers, and there's a lot of caching going on.
Characteristically, the most accurate and up-to-date database is the one the ILEC uses; many of these VoIP ITSPs and CLECs use other third parties, and either they or the third party do a fair bit of caching and questionable update processes to save money on CNAM dips.
The whole thing's pretty stupid; it should just be canceled.
99% of it comes back to: http://www.targusinfo.com/solutions/identification/caller_name/ Syniverse uses these guys. Verisign always used its STPs and GTT to route you to the direct CNAM databases and get you the right data from the proper industry databases. Targus does not do that, despite their ironically written website they're 99% of the CNAM problem in this nation. TNS used to use them, but recently moved to their recently acquired Verisign network for caller ID with name data so they no longer have the issue either. AT&T (upper and lower case AT&T, that is) don't have this issue, nor do the ILECs obviously. -Paul
On 10/06/2010 06:17 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:
On 10/06/2010 05:33 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, not everybody uses the same CNAM lookup providers, and there's a lot of caching going on.
Characteristically, the most accurate and up-to-date database is the one the ILEC uses; many of these VoIP ITSPs and CLECs use other third parties, and either they or the third party do a fair bit of caching and questionable update processes to save money on CNAM dips.
The whole thing's pretty stupid; it should just be canceled.
99% of it comes back to:
http://www.targusinfo.com/solutions/identification/caller_name/
Really? Didn't know their share was quite that high. Interesting. And yeah, lots of folks query them and then cache. They're not supposed to, of course, as per the contract, but alas.
Verisign always used its STPs and GTT to route you to the direct CNAM databases and get you the right data from the proper industry databases.
Indeed, but they are more expensive, compelling much of the competitive carrier sector to switch to Targus. -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 1170 Peachtree Street 12th Floor, Suite 1200 Atlanta, GA 30309 Tel: +1-678-954-0670 Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/
Thanks for all the replies. I knew a lot of those answers already, but the recent surge in complaints drove me to post this topic. Anyone have an idea on how long the ITSP goliaths like Comcast or Vonage typically cache a record? "Alex Balashov" <abalashov at evaristesys.com> wrote:
On 10/06/2010 06:17 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:
On 10/06/2010 05:33 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, not everybody uses the same CNAM lookup providers, and there's a lot of caching going on.
Characteristically, the most accurate and up-to-date database is the one the ILEC uses; many of these VoIP ITSPs and CLECs use other third parties, and either they or the third party do a fair bit of caching and questionable update processes to save money on CNAM dips.
The whole thing's pretty stupid; it should just be canceled.
99% of it comes back to:
http://www.targusinfo.com/solutions/identification/caller_name/
Really? Didn't know their share was quite that high. Interesting.
And yeah, lots of folks query them and then cache. They're not supposed to, of course, as per the contract, but alas.
Verisign always used its STPs and GTT to route you to the direct CNAM databases and get you the right data from the proper industry databases.
Indeed, but they are more expensive, compelling much of the competitive carrier sector to switch to Targus.
-- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 1170 Peachtree Street 12th Floor, Suite 1200 Atlanta, GA 30309 Tel: +1-678-954-0670 Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On 10/06/2010 06:53 PM, Christian Pena wrote:
Anyone have an idea on how long the ITSP goliaths like Comcast or Vonage typically cache a record?
It is as likely to be them as their origination carriers. -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 1170 Peachtree Street 12th Floor, Suite 1200 Atlanta, GA 30309 Tel: +1-678-954-0670 Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/
Christian Pena wrote:
Thanks for all the replies.
I knew a lot of those answers already, but the recent surge in complaints drove me to post this topic.
Anyone have an idea on how long the ITSP goliaths like Comcast or Vonage typically cache a record?
I've observed 4-6 months with Cox. I haven't paid attention to the others, Cox is the big problem in my area. One of our ILEC partners has a magic phone call they make and get Cox to manually update if we ask them to. -- Carlos Alvarez TelEvolve 602-889-3003
It's actually beyond just caching with Targus, they also allow their customers to submit changes (read: overrides) to their database which also contribute to the problem. In Targus's favor, they are trying to do a good thing but as other posters have mentioned, it's an amazingly complex system with more carrier to carrier variation than just about any other feature out there. I think the cell phone providers are smart to just flat out not implement it. The best thing you can really do is have the person at the far end that is seeing the wrong CNAM entry complain to their own carrier. In my experience people that make a provider money have better leverage than the competitors. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Paul Timmins Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 6:18 PM To: Alex Balashov Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Outbound Caller-ID Name Issue on Certain Carriers On 10/06/2010 05:33 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, not everybody uses the same CNAM lookup providers, and there's a lot of caching going on.
Characteristically, the most accurate and up-to-date database is the one the ILEC uses; many of these VoIP ITSPs and CLECs use other third parties, and either they or the third party do a fair bit of caching and questionable update processes to save money on CNAM dips.
The whole thing's pretty stupid; it should just be canceled.
99% of it comes back to: http://www.targusinfo.com/solutions/identification/caller_name/ Syniverse uses these guys. Verisign always used its STPs and GTT to route you to the direct CNAM databases and get you the right data from the proper industry databases. Targus does not do that, despite their ironically written website they're 99% of the CNAM problem in this nation. TNS used to use them, but recently moved to their recently acquired Verisign network for caller ID with name data so they no longer have the issue either. AT&T (upper and lower case AT&T, that is) don't have this issue, nor do the ILECs obviously. -Paul _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
I can't say I've seen a cnam issue since we moved to AT&T DG aka SNET -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Scott Berkman Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 7:33 PM To: 'Paul Timmins'; 'Alex Balashov' Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Outbound Caller-ID Name Issue on Certain Carriers It's actually beyond just caching with Targus, they also allow their customers to submit changes (read: overrides) to their database which also contribute to the problem. In Targus's favor, they are trying to do a good thing but as other posters have mentioned, it's an amazingly complex system with more carrier to carrier variation than just about any other feature out there. I think the cell phone providers are smart to just flat out not implement it. The best thing you can really do is have the person at the far end that is seeing the wrong CNAM entry complain to their own carrier. In my experience people that make a provider money have better leverage than the competitors. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org [mailto:voiceops-bounces at voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Paul Timmins Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 6:18 PM To: Alex Balashov Cc: voiceops at voiceops.org Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Outbound Caller-ID Name Issue on Certain Carriers On 10/06/2010 05:33 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
Yeah, not everybody uses the same CNAM lookup providers, and there's a
lot of caching going on.
Characteristically, the most accurate and up-to-date database is the one the ILEC uses; many of these VoIP ITSPs and CLECs use other third
parties, and either they or the third party do a fair bit of caching and questionable update processes to save money on CNAM dips.
The whole thing's pretty stupid; it should just be canceled.
99% of it comes back to: http://www.targusinfo.com/solutions/identification/caller_name/ Syniverse uses these guys. Verisign always used its STPs and GTT to route you to the direct CNAM databases and get you the right data from the proper industry databases. Targus does not do that, despite their ironically written website they're 99% of the CNAM problem in this nation. TNS used to use them, but recently moved to their recently acquired Verisign network for caller ID with name data so they no longer have the issue either. AT&T (upper and lower case AT&T, that is) don't have this issue, nor do the ILECs obviously. -Paul _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
They're either using a CNAM provider that is caching, or they are caching lookups themselves, or both. You can put out fires or wait for the cache entry to expire. On 10/6/2010 4:29 PM, Christian Pena wrote:
We are having increasing numbers of complaints from our users that they make outbound calls and the far end sees the incorrect calling party name.
We have "ABC Company" loaded into the CNAM DB , we make test calls to a local LEC line and the correct name shows up. That same customer calls a Comcast, MetroPCS, Vonage, etc number and the far end sees "Dominos Pizza"(for example).
I have been putting out dozens of fires with these terminating carriers for a couple of weeks, they find the problem and fix it and we move forward. This is normal business but have seen an enormous increase in these kind of reports from customers.
Anyone else out there seeing this kind of issue recently?
-- **Christian Pena**
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list VoiceOps at voiceops.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
-- Lee Riemer Director of Technical Operations Bestline Communications, L.P. Voice: 1+512.328.9095 Fax: 1+512.328.0038
participants (7)
-
abalashov＠evaristesys.com -
carlos＠race.com -
carlos＠televolve.com -
cpena＠ststelecom.com -
lriemer＠bestline.net -
paul＠timmins.net -
scott＠sberkman.net