Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
Seems common to me, why do you think it’s rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the “free” switching fabric in the datacenter. On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps < voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote:
Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18236 Sinch is only on three https://www.peeringdb.com/net/8270 Telnyx isn't on any https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1835 Bandwidth is only on four ----- Mike Hammett Fiber Data Internet Exchange DNA Communications From: "Carlos Alvarez via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:37 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges Seems common to me, why do you think it’s rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the “free” switching fabric in the datacenter. On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps <voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote: Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
Lingo doesn't even show up on PeeringDB. https://www.peeringdb.com/net/31453 Fusion isn't on any. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops@ics-il.net> To: "Carlos Alvarez" <caalvarez@gmail.com> Cc: "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18236 Sinch is only on three https://www.peeringdb.com/net/8270 Telnyx isn't on any https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1835 Bandwidth is only on four ----- Mike Hammett Fiber Data Internet Exchange DNA Communications From: "Carlos Alvarez via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:37 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges Seems common to me, why do you think it’s rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the “free” switching fabric in the datacenter. On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps <voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote: Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
Sinch operates ASN 5715 as well https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18244 On 2026-11-04 13:34, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote:
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18236
Sinch is only on three
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/8270
Telnyx isn't on any
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1835
Bandwidth is only on four
-----
Mike Hammett
Fiber Data Internet Exchange
DNA Communications
-------------------------
From: "Carlos Alvarez via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:37 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges
Seems common to me, why do you think it's rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the "free" switching fabric in the datacenter.
On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps <voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote:
Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
Peerless/Infobip is in a few. Had to go through account manager to get the Network team to respond to the peering request. https://www.peeringdb.com/net/16256 When Sinch was Inteliquent and part of GTT, it was easier. Just buy GTT transit. Most major VOIP networks just use a couple transits if they aren't behind a DDOS provider. Telnyx and Bandwidth will do an interconnect via Megaport. But that could be costly depending on locations and if traffic has to be hauled to a different city. Verizon and Telefonica wouldn't do peering even though I'm on the same exchange and a customer. On Wed, Nov 4, 2026 at 1:12 PM Brian Knight via VoiceOps < voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote:
Sinch operates ASN 5715 as well
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18244
On 2026-11-04 13:34, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote:
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18236
Sinch is only on three
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/8270
Telnyx isn't on any
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1835
Bandwidth is only on four
-----
Mike Hammett
Fiber Data Internet Exchange
DNA Communications
------------------------------ *From:* "Carlos Alvarez via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> *To:* "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:37 PM *Subject:* [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges
Seems common to me, why do you think it's rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the "free" switching fabric in the datacenter.
On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps < voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote:
Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
Ah, I see that now and one Sinch is the customer of the other Sinch. My Sinch endpoints are in 40160. I don't understand inconsistent peering approaches even more than the lack of peering. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Brian Knight" <ml@knight-networks.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops@ics-il.net>, "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges Sinch operates ASN 5715 as well https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18244 On 2026-11-04 13:34, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote: https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18236 Sinch is only on three https://www.peeringdb.com/net/8270 Telnyx isn't on any https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1835 Bandwidth is only on four ----- Mike Hammett Fiber Data Internet Exchange DNA Communications From: "Carlos Alvarez via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:37 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges Seems common to me, why do you think it's rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the "free" switching fabric in the datacenter. On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps <voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote: Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
My "Guess" is that because they are relatively low traffic they pass up IX's to have less points of entry. Makes it easier to put behind cloudflare when a DDoS hits. My endpoints are also in 40160. And I hold two BGP sessions with 40160 via private circuits. They're in a lot of locations too. Likely due to needing local facilities for TDM connectivity. So it's not for a lack of being near IX's. On 2026-11-05 10:04, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote:
Ah, I see that now and one Sinch is the customer of the other Sinch. My Sinch endpoints are in 40160.
I don't understand inconsistent peering approaches even more than the lack of peering.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com -------------------------
From: "Brian Knight" <ml@knight-networks.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops@ics-il.net>, "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges
Sinch operates ASN 5715 as well
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18244
On 2026-11-04 13:34, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote:
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18236
Sinch is only on three
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/8270
Telnyx isn't on any
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1835
Bandwidth is only on four
-----
Mike Hammett
Fiber Data Internet Exchange
DNA Communications
-------------------------
From: "Carlos Alvarez via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:37 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges
Seems common to me, why do you think it's rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the "free" switching fabric in the datacenter.
On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps <voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote:
Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
nods but for companies of that size, the tooling exists (and in the open source community) to detect the DDoS attacks and drop only the BGP peers presenting harm, forcing it through the scrubbers. That approach lets you keep better-performing, higher-reliability routes the rest of the time. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Nick Olsen" <nick@141networks.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops@ics-il.net> Cc: "Brian Knight" <ml@knight-networks.com>, "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2026 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges My "Guess" is that because they are relatively low traffic they pass up IX's to have less points of entry. Makes it easier to put behind cloudflare when a DDoS hits. My endpoints are also in 40160. And I hold two BGP sessions with 40160 via private circuits. They're in a lot of locations too. Likely due to needing local facilities for TDM connectivity. So it's not for a lack of being near IX's. On 2026-11-05 10:04, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote: Ah, I see that now and one Sinch is the customer of the other Sinch. My Sinch endpoints are in 40160. I don't understand inconsistent peering approaches even more than the lack of peering. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Brian Knight" <ml@knight-networks.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops@ics-il.net>, "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges Sinch operates ASN 5715 as well https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18244 On 2026-11-04 13:34, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote: https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18236 Sinch is only on three https://www.peeringdb.com/net/8270 Telnyx isn't on any https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1835 Bandwidth is only on four ----- Mike Hammett Fiber Data Internet Exchange DNA Communications From: "Carlos Alvarez via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:37 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges Seems common to me, why do you think it's rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the "free" switching fabric in the datacenter. On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps <voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote: Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
Agree 100%. Specially for voice that can highly benefit from a shorter path and decreased latency..etc. The other issue may be that only a handful of their customers may be on any one exchange. Making the cost of entering that exchange (Port/XC costs) prohibitive for the return. However, I'd argue they're not looking far enough downstream to really get that full picture. Such as entering a given IX might put them directly adjacent to HE. And while HE might not be a customer, they might serve MANY that are. And would see that traffic move to that port once the advertisements hit. </speculation> On 2026-11-05 10:54, Mike Hammett wrote:
_nods_ but for companies of that size, the tooling exists (and in the open source community) to detect the DDoS attacks and drop only the BGP peers presenting harm, forcing it through the scrubbers.
That approach lets you keep better-performing, higher-reliability routes the rest of the time.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com -------------------------
From: "Nick Olsen" <nick@141networks.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops@ics-il.net> Cc: "Brian Knight" <ml@knight-networks.com>, "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2026 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges
My "Guess" is that because they are relatively low traffic they pass up IX's to have less points of entry. Makes it easier to put behind cloudflare when a DDoS hits.
My endpoints are also in 40160. And I hold two BGP sessions with 40160 via private circuits. They're in a lot of locations too. Likely due to needing local facilities for TDM connectivity. So it's not for a lack of being near IX's.
On 2026-11-05 10:04, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote:
Ah, I see that now and one Sinch is the customer of the other Sinch. My Sinch endpoints are in 40160.
I don't understand inconsistent peering approaches even more than the lack of peering.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com -------------------------
From: "Brian Knight" <ml@knight-networks.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <voiceops@ics-il.net>, "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges
Sinch operates ASN 5715 as well
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18244
On 2026-11-04 13:34, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote:
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18236
Sinch is only on three
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/8270
Telnyx isn't on any
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1835
Bandwidth is only on four
-----
Mike Hammett
Fiber Data Internet Exchange
DNA Communications
-------------------------
From: "Carlos Alvarez via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:37 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges
Seems common to me, why do you think it's rare? We have servers in a facility with handoffs to several carriers. We can pay to peer directly with a cross connect, but stopped doing that and just depend on the "free" switching fabric in the datacenter.
On Nov 4, 2026 at 10:41:47 AM, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps <voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote:
Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
_______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
No issue here. We are easily able to connect with other voice networks directly or via exchanges.
I think a lot of them pulled back on Exchange peering so they can sit behind DDOS providers like Cloudflare or Radware that can filter all traffic. Peering directly with them as a customer is usually possible via Megaport, or if you're local to an exchange they happen to be on. However that doesn't do much good if your customer's ISP doesn't peer with them. On Wed, Nov 4, 2026 at 10:45 AM Mike Johnston via VoiceOps < voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote:
No issue here. We are easily able to connect with other voice networks directly or via exchanges. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
It seems like they could be on IXes and only bring up peering sessions with their customers. ----- Mike Hammett Fiber Data Internet Exchange DNA Communications From: "Jared Geiger via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "voiceops" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 1:07 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges I think a lot of them pulled back on Exchange peering so they can sit behind DDOS providers like Cloudflare or Radware that can filter all traffic. Peering directly with them as a customer is usually possible via Megaport, or if you're local to an exchange they happen to be on. However that doesn't do much good if your customer's ISP doesn't peer with them. On Wed, Nov 4, 2026 at 10:45 AM Mike Johnston via VoiceOps <voiceops@voiceops.org> wrote: No issue here. We are easily able to connect with other voice networks directly or via exchanges. _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
Cross-connects get expensive in many facilities. ----- Mike Hammett Fiber Data Internet Exchange DNA Communications From: "Mike Johnston via VoiceOps" <voiceops@voiceops.org> To: "voiceops" <voiceops@voiceops.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2026 12:48 PM Subject: [VoiceOps] Re: Internet Exchanges No issue here. We are easily able to connect with other voice networks directly or via exchanges.
We peer with customers and other networks across IXes. What exactly did you mean by "meaningfully well peered data network?" -Brian On 2026-11-04 11:41, Mike Hammett via VoiceOps wrote:
Why is it rare for voice networks to have a meaningfully well peered data network, including Internet exchanges?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing list -- VoiceOps@voiceops.org https://lists.voiceops.org/postorius/lists/voiceops.voiceops.org/ To unsubscribe send an email to voiceops-leave@voiceops.org
participants (6)
-
Brian Knight -
Carlos Alvarez -
Jared Geiger -
Mike Hammett -
Mike Johnston -
Nick Olsen